Carol Nolan pushes for apprenticeship upgrades and school reform

I'd just like to thank you all for coming in and it's certainly been very insightful and informative. To actually have the apprentices in here I think is very very valuable because it's your experience and you're telling us what the gaps are and bringing our attention to I suppose what needs to change and the aspects that could be much better for you all. So I just want to wish you all the very very best in your careers and I have a question for Michael. You know you've mentioned Michael that there's 1600 craft apprenticeships if I heard you correctly and that's certainly very welcome. As somebody who would have been very very supportive of apprenticeships you know I think we should be in this country trying to get to the stage or to the level that Germany has achieved. That's the way I would be thinking because we have serious gaps you know the ETB Ireland are constantly raising the fact that we have serious gaps in terms of apprenticeships. And unfortunately it does seem to be snobbery in the education system where people felt that the only education that they should go through at third level or the only courses were the academic courses in third level and that's shameful. I think that's something that needs to change. I think you know the craftsmanship needs to be valued and that we do need to promote apprenticeships in our education system. I think that's a very positive but I think we need more of that you know I know Patrick you mentioned that you know in the schools you know for instance the teachers might not raise that or promote apprenticeships and I think that that's that's where the change needs to happen at second level where there it is presented as an option. I would have gone to a vocational secondary school myself but apprenticeships were very much promoted in the school which did great work and I think that's something that's lacking unfortunately in many second level schools and we need to return to that and ask the questions why it's not happening. So that would be my concern there. Michael you mentioned I suppose the fact that you need to upgrade facilities in order to get more apprenticeships courses in place. But how much funding do you think or how much more funding do you feel is needed in order to upgrade the facilities to the level they should be at? Okay, just maybe to go back slightly and agree completely with what you're saying regarding the apprentices and the promotion of apprentices, you're quite correct. There is a certain level of snobbery there but that's what we in WorldSkills Ireland are trying to work on and trying to highlight the fact that apprenticeship apprenticeship is a viable option, is a workable option and is something that is really really valuable because you have to learn and the only way of really learning something is to actually work on it. I mean they talk about medicine and medicine is pushed through and yes of course suitable for some people but after seven years in university is a doctor allowed into an operating theatre and to operate on you and I? I don't think so. They have to have practical experience and that's the case. So really when you look at it, the apprenticeship model is the model that's used throughout but that snobbery end of it I think is reducing. We hope to be able to help and bring it down and certainly the career guidance organisation that we are dealing with certainly is open to that and has engaged with us. We are delighted that they have done so. Regarding the funding, I can be specific about the funding in MTU Cork. We are talking in the region to bring those buildings up to spec. 20-25 million is roughly what is needed there but that is only one part of the building. The building, bottom line, the apprenticeship section in MTU Bishopstone Campus was built in 1976. The throughput at that point in time was very very low. It was a regional technical college back then and the numbers going through at that point were relatively low. and the building was fit for purpose at that point. It is certainly not fit for purpose at this point in time. The numbers going through were huge and we should be exposing both apprentices and full-time students, by the way, because our facilities in the apprenticeship area are used not just by the apprentices but by the full-time engineering students as well. These students expect and are entitled to the best facilities. At this point in time, we have the best equipment but we do not have the best facilities. That is fair enough. My final question then, Ray, if you do not mind. The World Skills Competition, it is fantastic to see Ireland do so well at that level. But do you feel, you know, we have obviously high calibre skilled apprentices there. Is it attracting companies to set up in Ireland? And I am just curious also because I sit on many IBEC meetings and they always mention that there is a shortage of skilled labour and that is an issue for employers. But are IBEC and IDA linking in with you in any way? Like when we have these high calibre apprentices achieving so much on the world stage, I think it would make sense to have collaboration and cohesion. And maybe that is happening. But I would just be curious to know what their position is in regard to the idea and IBEC. Certainly IBEC themselves have developed a number of apprenticeships which is really important as well, I think, to acknowledge. So they would be more aware of apprenticeship now, I suppose, and are more involved, I suppose, in the delivery of it as well. The idea, certainly I know from talking to colleagues when we developed or developed the new cyber security competition for World Skills Ireland, that the feedback was this is really absolutely brilliant because we can sell this to foreign companies. The level of skills that are needed are actually in the economy. There's a shortage everywhere. I think it's through promotion of skills that we can encourage more people to come in. But we really have to step back a number of years and link those who are in second level now to get them thinking about what their career options will be. I think it's really interesting the developments also in relation to the formation of the National Apprenticeship Office. I think that's really important. But I also think the conversations that are starting to go on between further education and higher education, and actually linking right the way through is really, really important. And it's to get over that idea that parents have, that if you go to an apprenticeship, you kind of stop at some stage. And to say that it's absolutely wide open, the ability and the options to return to education part-time or full-time are absolutely there. And I think that's really important that we need to sell that, that it is lifelong learning. It never stops. The same way that you upskill within your career, you can upskill throughout education. I think that's another really important thing that we need to make. Okay, great. Thanks.