Bríd Smith Questions Minister on LNG and Nuclear Options

Question number 22 in the name of Dr Breed-Smith, Councillor? Councillor? Councillor Breed-Smith. Sorry, talk to that. I wouldn't promote you like that. No, no, it's all right. I don't consider it a promotion, actually. Just a different role. Minister, you made an astonishment statement, at least you were quoted as making an astonishment statement in the Irish Times last week, in which you left open the door for the introduction of LNGs, or indeed nuclear power. in order to deal with this crisis. Now, can you clarify for me, is that the position, both of you as Minister, and the Green Party in government, that you would allow this country to be tied into the use of LNGs, which would basically mean, in a further reliance of about 30 years on another type of fossil fuel? Thank you very much indeed. If I give the formal response and then come back to you, because it's critical to hear. I've asked the question on the paper, and I'd like the question answered, not the question that's in your head. OK, well, the written response I had was in response to the written question, but if you prefer, I will just focus immediately on that, on your verbal question here. I think over the years, I've not been involved in this energy policy for about 20 years in this house, I think at various stages, right down to the years, I've always said, you should always look at all options, in terms of nuclear power, which I don't believe we will turn to. I believe it's too expensive. We've got better, more competitive advantage with regard to our own renewable power supplies, but never rule out options. You always make choices on best energy solutions, economic benefits, environmental benefits as well. Similarly, with regard to gas and LNG, I think I've made my position clear over the years, that I think we have to avoid the risk of having stranded assets, and that the investment, the new future, particularly in the gas sector, I see is coming in terms of conversion of that renewable power we have into hydrogen supplies, and that that will be the investments into the future. And I also, over the years, I think we've made some very specific decisions, which I think are the correct ones, for example, not proceeding with frack gas on our country, not proceeding with oil and gas exploration now, because of that risk of stranded assets, and also the climate imperative, in terms of switching away from such fossil fuels. So I reiterate and repeat what I've been saying over the years, is that we never rule out any options. You always look at strategically what's best for the country and best for our people, consider all options, but I'll obviously inform the policy process with my own views. There is an issue around gas storage in Europe at this present time, and the war has changed everything. We've seen, and it's, your colleagues, I know, I've talked to Deputy Boyd Barrett and others saying, you know, this crisis is not caused by the war, but I believe it has been, particularly the energy crisis aspect of it, because what we saw over the last year was Russia scaling back its export of gas and increasing their own storage. And we're in a situation now where Europe is very low on gas storage, and Russian gas storage is very high. And we do have to look at all options within that framework, European framework. And Dr Smith. Okay, a couple of things. The first thing is to say, I think it'll come as a major surprise to a lot of your party members and the climate movement, that you have always said over the years, we have to keep all options open, including nuclear power. Because over the years, what I've heard from you, and particularly as you consider yourself a leader of the climate movement, is that we have to keep fossil fuels in the ground. And we must do this to reach our Paris targets and to reduce our emissions, and we have to take radical action. What you're saying now is quite the reverse, and you are leaving the door open, and you've just repeated it there, to any form of power in the current climate. But what I find contradictory is your colleague, Nasa Hurricane, who's sitting in the chamber now, has put forward a bill to ban LNGs in the future. So it's almost like, oh, well, we might have to put up with one at Shannon, or maybe a state-led one, but in the future we're not going to have them. And we need clarity on your position on this. It is unfair to the movement, it is unfair to the deputies in this House, who are like you, passionate and concerned about climate change, to try and figure out what is the official position of the government, and what is the official position of the minister in relation to tying this country into a fossil fuel future. Gourmet agar. And Tara. Over those years, I've always made it perfectly clear over the years of that importance of looking at every option and not being afraid of debate. In fact, debate is the most important rigorous thing you need to assess all the options. And if you went into that saying, we'll never talk nuclear, we'll never talk gas storage in any format whatsoever. Well, how are you going to get that informed debate and make the case that this is where we think the correct way to go? So, as I said, the war has changed everything in terms of we are going to switch away from that Russian gas. And that's a huge, in Europe, if you can put it in the wider European context, a huge percentage of almost half of our gas use coming from that source. So, making the switch will be difficult. Different countries will have different approaches. Some countries, the likes of Germany, seem to be as looking at the introduction of new energy terminals. I think we will be in a different position. Because I think, as I said, the physics of the gas network that we're connected to with UK, Norwegian gas and our own gas supply puts us in a very different position to other countries. There are a whole variety of different aspects to that, including, we don't have gas storage in the island. There are, we've always said and looked at and we're willing to discuss the likes of gas storage in the Kinsale gas field or in salt caverns and other possible options. What we said is we would look at all those options in an energy security review. That's what we're doing. And in that context, you can't look at the options while going in saying that we're never going to consider one or the other. Okay. And with all due respect to you, and I'm not intending to insult you, and I love debate, and this is part of this debate. I think you have changed your position very, very fundamentally by saying we leave the door open to LNGs, to other forms of gas storage, importation, and the possibility of nuclear power. It's an extraordinary position that you're putting for a Green Party leader and the Minister for Energy in a climate disaster. We will not even reach the target set by this government or this Dáil in the bill that was passed. We won't reach Paris if we go down the line of what you're arguing for. And I think you're misleading the public by saying that this is connected with the war in Ukraine. We do not rely on Russian gas. For the next 10 years, we have 27% of our supply coming from Korib and the remaining 73% through the Moffat connector, which you've just acknowledged is mainly Norwegian and British coming from the North Sea. So, twisting the whole thing around to the Ukrainian disaster is not fair and it is misleading the public. So, I would like you to repeat for me again, what is the official government position on the creation of an LNG terminal, or the location of an LNG terminal in this country, or the possibility of nuclear power? So, please focus on the LNG. It's set out in the programme for government, which we're now pursuing in terms of carrying out the energy security study. But I have to come back to that first key point, in terms of what is the cause of this current crisis, in terms of high gas prices. And we're not talking about the crisis, supply. Well, the crisis is the crisis that we have to address, one of the crisis we have to address. I didn't ask about the price, I asked about the supply. And this debate and discussion as to whether the price crisis is connected to the war, yes or no, I believe fundamentally it's important in looking at all the options and looking at what's happening, that we get clarity on that. And I believe absolutely, there are a number of complex factors at it related to how we came out coming out of Covid and so on, but the actual what's happening in Russia and Ukraine is central to why our customers, our households are facing very high bills at this present time. And I say that because that's part of the analysis that you have to take into account in looking at how we develop energy policy into the future, ignoring that reality, I think wouldn't serve our people. Thank you Minister. Thank you, Minister. We're my good.