Rose Conway-Walsh calls for review of school cleaners' pension rights
Rose Conway-Walsh asked whether school cleaners are considered critical staff and whether they will be moved into the public service pension scheme, arguing long-term cleaners are undervalued and lack pension rights. The minister acknowledged cleaners' vital role in COVID-19 prevention, said cleaners are employed either by schools via the ancillary grant or by ETBs, and said pension provision is a matter for those employers while pointing to planned automatic enrolment by 2022.
Main issue raised
The deputy pressed the minister on whether cleaners should be recognised as critical staff in schools and whether the Department plans to move long-term service cleaners into the public service pension scheme to reflect their role in health and safety of children.
Minister's position and operational details
The minister recognised the important role cleaners play in school operations, especially during COVID-19, and noted cleaning is part of infection prevention and control. Significant additional funding has been provided to schools for extra cleaning on a per capita basis. Cleaners are employed directly by schools using the ancillary grant mechanism or by Education and Training Boards (ETBs), and pension provision is therefore a matter for the individual school or ETB.
Pension reform roadmap and savings options
The minister reminded the chamber that schools and ETBs, as employers, are obliged to provide access to a personal retirement savings account. The Government's Roadmap for Pensions Reform 2018-2023 commits to develop a state-sponsored automatic enrolment supplementary retirement savings system by 2022, under which eligible employees will be automatically enrolled with an opt-out option.
Deputy's criticism and comparisons
The deputy argued that leaving responsibility to schools and ETBs is an abdication of responsibility, noting many cleaners have worked for decades in the public system without access to a public service pension. She compared their situation to recent moves to regularise pay, employment and pension provision for school secretaries and caretakers and called on the minister to review cleaners' entitlement to pension rights.
Next steps and outlook
The minister reiterated the current employer-based arrangements but said automatic enrolment and other reforms remain under review and should come on stream in the near future. The deputy urged a review to address perceived unfairness for long-serving school cleaners.
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Minister, I want to ask whether in your view cleaners are critical staff in the running of schools and whether that view will be reflected in how you approach pension reforms for long-term service cleaners. Cleaners have always played a central and vital role in our schools, but with COVID their importance has increased. Does your department have any plans to move the cleaners into the public service pension scheme to reflect their critical role in health and safety of children? Thank you, Deputy. I do absolutely recognise the important role the cleaners play in the successful operation of our schools in every year, but particularly so in the COVID-19 context. I'm very conscious of the superb work on an ongoing basis that is taking place by the cleaners in our schools. Currently, each school is required to have a COVID-19 response plan for safe operation through the prevention, early detection and control of COVID-19 in line with public health advice. Cleaning is an important aspect of infection prevention control measures in schools to minimise the risk of transmission of infection. Significant additional funding has been provided to all schools for putting in place additional cleaning. Funding is provided on a per capita basis. As the deputy may be aware, cleaners are employed by schools directly using the ancillary grant mechanism to schools. In ETB schools, cleaners are employed directly by the ETB. The provision of a pension is therefore a matter for the respective individual school or ETB. Schools and ETBs, as employers, are obliged to provide access to a personal retirement savings account. In line with the Roadmap for Pensions Reform 2018-2023, the Government has committed to develop and implement a state-sponsored automatic enrolment supplementary retirement savings system by 2022. Under automatic enrolment, employees without personal retirement savings and who meet certain age and earnings criteria will be automatically enrolled into a state-sponsored quality-assured supplementary retirement savings system with freedom of choice, of course, as always, to opt out. Thank you very much. Minister, to say that we give schools the money and they are responsible, I believe, is an abdication of responsibility. While they may not be legally defined as such, they certainly are public servants. It is argued that they are not employees of the state, despite the fact that the body that employs them on a long-term basis is funded by the state. The third reason put forward is that they have not been a public sector pension contribution made throughout their working life. I would argue that they have not been given the right to do so. They, like many others, are undervalued workers inside our public services. I would call on the Minister to review the situation. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. Goera Maga. school if they're employed through the school and the capitation grant or the the individual ETB if they're employers of the ETB but I will reiterate as I've said previously to you schools and ETBs as employers then are obliged to provide access to the personal retirement savings account and you know that is the current situation as it exists but equally so as I've outlined to you earlier there is the roadmap for pension reform and there is the mechanism anticipated by 2022 for the automatic enrolment which should come on stream with an opt-in opt-out choice obviously in the near future thank you Minister we have heard all of those arguments before we've heard them when it came to school secretaries and caretakers now recently the government has finally agreed to sit down for talks to regularise the pay conditions and employment and pension provision of school secretaries and caretakers and this certainly is a welcome development I look forward to an outcome that they have waited a long time for they are critical components of our education system and deserve to have that rightly reflected in their work and pay conditions the situation for long term service cleaners in school is in schools are very similar they are long term employees of the public system and they do not currently have access to a public service pension we have many cleaners in schools who have been there for decades and I just believe that there's an unfairness within the system that they are that they are not entitled to pension rights in the way that other workers are and I would ask you just to look at it let's see if it can be reviewed thank you okay and thank you deputy again I will reiterate as you say many workers of long-standing contributing very positively and vitally to the school environment and most especially doing so in a COVID-19 atmosphere and indeed I know myself from personal experience doing so on a very generous basis and doing so very willingly and very positively and doing so and oftentimes above and beyond the the call of duty I absolutely want to recognise that I have seen it observed it and been part of it myself for very many years and but I will say to you as it currently stands I must say that the the cleaners are employed by schools as I've said by the grant mechanism or directly by the ETB and we will see in terms of 2022 and the automatic enrollment and supplementary retirement savings system and how that will work and but equally so just to say to you I like this mechanism like everything else and I said previously to deputy O'Leary everything is under review but there is an acknowledgment that as it exists currently this is this you know this is how it is current you minister question 38 is deputy Patrick Costell
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