Éamon Ó Cuív presses for mountain access and trail insurance

Minister, as you know in the early noughties there was a crisis about rural development, access to hills and so on and a lot of work was done on it. There seems to have been a long hiatus then in the early parts of the last decade where very little happened. I was wondering what progress has been made in rural recreation and how we're going to develop this absolutely phenomenal asset we have. And for example, have you resolved the issue of access to mountains in an organised way as had been piloted back in 2008? Thank you for raising this. First of all Deputy, can I just acknowledge the work that you put in to setting this up when you were Minister in this Department. COVID-19 has reminded us all of the importance of outdoor recreation amenities for our physical and mental wellbeing. My department provides substantial funding for outdoor recreation infrastructure through programmes such as the Outdoor Recreation Infrastructure Scheme, the WALK Scheme and the Rural Regeneration and Development Fund. My department also works with state agencies such as Cilce and Fawlty Ireland as well as other stakeholders to facilitate the strategic development of the sector. Corlea Na Thuja, the Countryside Council, is central to this work as it brings the outdoor recreation stakeholders together in an advisory role. In June of 2019, Corlea was given a new mandate to strengthen its role in the development of the outdoor recreation sector. Dr Liam Toomey was appointed as Chair of Corlea and has driven the new mandate with the support of the Council members. Earlier this year, the group commenced work on the development of a new national outdoor recreation strategy to provide a vision and framework for the growth of the sector. I will bring this strategy to government when it is completed next year. A range of other initiatives are being advanced by the Council, which will be captured in the annual report of the group, which will be agreed at the next meeting of Corlea. My department is also establishing an interdepartmental committee to help progress recommendations coming from Corlea. This group will be particularly important in the development and implementation of the national outdoor recreation strategy. My department continues to provide substantial support for the sector, with an expenditure of approximately £11 million on the outdoor recreation infrastructure scheme this year. At the end of last year, an additional 10 trails were approved for inclusion in the walk scheme. An external review of the scheme is also expected to be completed in the new year. This will pave the way for the further expansion of the scheme to 80 trails. I will come back to you with insurance. Thank you, Minister. Minister. Minister. Minister. Minister. The genesis of setting up Corlea Na Thuha and the most urgent problem that it faced in its early years was the whole issue of access to farmers' land. To hill land particularly, and to mountains. Because all of that is owned by somebody. There is no, what we call communities, shared ownership land. It is not common, it is not public land, unless it belongs to some organisations such as Queeltil. Therefore, what progress has been made, because it is not mentioned in your reply. To build a scheme that recognises the rights of farmers and on the other hand gives widespread access to the hills of Ireland. Because we do not need to build the hills, they are there, the mountains are there. But people want to access them. They want to be sure they can access them. That they will be welcome. That, on the other hand, the farmers want to be assured that there will be no dogs in the hills. That the fences will not be damaged and that the policy of leave no trace will be followed. So, Minister, there was a pilot scheme set up in 2008. There was an indemnity to be given to the farmers against the very off chance that somebody tried to take a case because they slipped on a rock or something on the mountain. Minister, what progress has been made in ensuring access to the hills? Is it intended also, as the second part of my question, is it intended to extend the trail scheme again this coming year? Because, again, that was in abeyance for 10 years. And Tara? Thank you. Well, Deputy, just to say that we have been working very hard with the local authorities to develop a pilot insurance scheme. The issue of the indemnity has been a long-running issue, as you know, for farmers in upland areas. So, to introduce an indemnity scheme, it was far too complex to provide a blanket indemnity. And we did get advice from the AG on it. And it would look like we were going to have to put amendments through a number of different pieces of legislation. And it was getting very, very complicated. And that is what the problem was. So, instead, we are working with the local authorities. And we are looking at rolling out a pilot insurance scheme. So, it will have the same effect, only it is an insurance policy. And, for example, it would involve the introduction of an insurance policy in the McGillicuddy Reeks, in the first instance. Which might then be expanded to other mountain access project areas. For example, Mount Gable and Galway. And it is hoped that new mountain access project areas would then be developed with support from my department. And I know that we have rolled out 10 new trails. And we are looking at developing more. Thank you, Minister. Mr O'Keefe. Minister, you are saying that the local authority might take out an insurance. Now, you might clarify how that is going to stop somebody suing the landowner as well as the local authority who has got the insurance. Because the idea of the indemnity scheme was to indemnify you against being sued. Because there is very, very little chance of a successful claim for somebody coming to Harmar the Hill through no fault of the farmer. They would have to show reckless disregard, I think, is what is in the law. And there are cases, as you know, in Wicklow and up in Donegal that have gone to the Supreme Court where they have ruled against the plaintiff. And in favour of the defendants. And one was a state defendant. The chance of a successful claim on a hill because of something that might happen are very, very small. The problem wasn't that you would succeed. The problem was that somebody might take the case and that a farmer would be part of a court case. And have to put a lot of resources in to fight another case that would fail. So can you assure me under whatever you are proposing now that that is going to deal with that specific problem. And that is not the cost of getting the insurance. That was never a problem because most farmers have insurance. It was how are you going to stop farmers being enjoined in a case and having to go through all the rigmarole of defending a case that will never succeed. The one thing I want to ensure, and I know you will agree with me, is that we do not want to give the farmers any problems in this space. This is, you know, the farmers are allowing people access onto their lands. We want to try and facilitate and accommodate it. But I do believe that the most stakeholders in the sector share the view that a public liability policy has the potential to deliver the same benefits as an indemnity scheme. But it can be introduced much more quickly. And I think the focus on the indemnity scheme may have somewhat distracted from the development of an alternative solution linked to insurance. So, as I said, my officials for some time now have been examining how best to introduce a scheme to indemnify private landowners, particularly in the upland areas. But it is a complex issue and they have looked at it and they feel that this is the best way forward. But the point I am making to you, and as I said, I know you will agree with me, the point is that we do not involve the farmers in this, that they will not have any liability. We do not want that to happen. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you.