Éamon Ó Cuív demands audit of solid-fuel use in council homes

Gole magad, daes geancurl agus tam ma cinti gamae space agus sa sanabar saal Istoile maere, gaminnig, gaminnig dhe túrt fhín, dîf mi cháirth gaa aibane Agus, sachas, maal a húrt gaa gwa gheini, sae di ansbid na andilil aga na núas ar gheini na cun morma rauwa acun Minister, the recent controversy about smoky coal and smoky fuel and smoky turf has focused nearly totally on distribution and sale of these fuels. But the question that does not seem to have been asked is why and who are the people who predominantly buy these fuels and why do they do it? And I would like to focus in particular on a section for which you as Minister of Housing are responsible directly, and that is the local authority houses that are fuelled by solid fuel. Now I think it is fair to say that lots of people have a stove in their house that they use occasionally, but they have some other main source of fuel for cooking and for heating water and for heating the house. But my experience is that a lot of local authority houses are mainly dependent on solid fuel ranges and on solid fuel for heating the house and on solid fuel for heating water. And in that case of course they have to keep the solid fuel burner going all day. Certainly, and I cannot get the figures because nobody provided me the figures, but from my experience of dealing with constituents it seems a totally disproportionate number of the people in my constituency dependent for the main source of heating and the same main source of cooking and solid fuel are in local authority houses. And this is true in Galway City as much as it is true in Galway County. Now you cannot blame these people for buying turf. It is the fuel they are familiar with. And there is also the issue of the cost of smokeless fuel. But anyway, all of those fuels have emissions. So, Minister, what I would first of all like to do is to suggest, and I hope I get a positive answer, that the department find out from each local authority how many houses in their stock are dependent and solid fuel as their primary source of energy. Because without the infariation you cannot solve the problem. And having found that out, to have an urgent program that would be completed within five years, allowing the difficulties in procurement etc, that would replace all of these with sustainable systems that would not only deal with the emissions issue in terms of smoke, but also with the emissions issue in terms of carbon. I would have to say I was disappointed when I did put a question on the oil on this issue to get a reply that the department did not know and they did not say they were even going to find out. So maybe we could do a two-step program, how many houses and then resolve the issue and instead of punishing people, assist people who are in fuel poverty. I would like to provide an update on behalf of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and like you Deputy I am from a large rural constituency who does have a huge dependency on fossil fuels. So I can absolutely understand in terms of the absolute need to have an alternative before certain public policy measures are pursued. Because if that is not the case, well then you will lose people along the way and we will not get to reach our targets in the long run. The Department has launched the Energy Efficiency Retrofit program in 2013 with the aim of funding retrofit of social houses requiring insulation and energy upgrade works. Since the program commenced in 2013 to the end of 2021, over 75,000 units of social housing stock have been retrofitted with a total exchequer spend of 183 million euro under the scheme. The Energy Efficiency Program was revised in 2021 with an increased budget made available to local authorities. A significant part of the program is focused on minimizing heat loss by upgrading the external fabric, walls, roof space, windows and doors and upgrading the heating systems. The funding available under the terms of this new deeper refit program does not however provide for fossil fuel heating systems or inset stoves in place of open fires. If appropriate local authorities can install such systems utilizing funding from their own resources. The revised 10-year program will see a significant upscaling to deeper retrofit on what has been completed by local authorities in previous years. A strong emphasis on fuel poverty and the need to improve thermal performance in social housing stock remains an absolute priority for the Department. In 2021, over 21.7 million euro of exchequer funding to support was provided in relation to retrofit work carried out on 1,584 dwellings. The Department acknowledges the difficult environment within which local authorities have had to work in 2021 with a construction shutdown and supply chain problems impacting on delivery and I look forward to a significantly improved output under this program in 2022. The newly revised and enhanced program will not only benefit local authorities in assisting them in the upgrade and maintenance of their housing stock but will more importantly benefit homeowners and householders in many ways. Their homes will be warmer, easier to heat and more comfortable. It will enhance their air quality in the home and for those currently using oil or gas they will see a significant saving on their energy bills. The scheme will also stimulate employment generation. Retrofitting homes is a highly labour intensive sector and can create high quality sustainable jobs in local communities throughout the country as the capacity to play a very important role in the economic recovery going forward. Thank you. I know you've been given a pre-prepared answer and it's the same cut and paste that I got when I put down a parliamentary question. First of all, it doesn't address question number one. Are we going to ascertain how many houses that are in local authority ownership are mainly fuelled by solid fuel? Yes or no? No. And the second issue, Minister, I noticed here, for example, it says it's easier to eat more comfortable with the hands air quality quality in the home for those currently using oil or gas. Now the question I asked specifically related to solid fuel, why? Because the Minister of the Environment keeps telling us that there are 1,300 people dying because of particulate matter pollution. That's not caused according to him by oil and we know it's not caused by gas. This particular issue of the particulate, they do obviously emit carbon-based energy but they don't have particulate problems. Now Minister, on one hand we have the Minister of the Environment telling us that we are killing people. On the other hand, the other side of the Government won't even find out how many or how big a cause they are to this problem and how much they are contributing to it by insisting and not changing as a priority the houses that are fuelled by solid fuel to a much more sustainable form of heating. And this seems to be showing a total lack of government in relation to this matter. So Minister, can I reiterate, the question is quite simple. One, is it intended to find out how many local authority houses are fuelled by solid fuel mainly? And secondly, is it intended to have a special programme focussed on changing the fuel source in those houses to something more sustainable? And they are the two big issues. And can I finally say, it is my observation that the vast majority of the houses in Galway City that face this problem are either local authority houses and in a smaller number of cases private houses owned by people who are very disadvantaged. So Minister, I think it's time that the state put its money where its mouth was. Thank you. Thank you, Lhasa Cairn Coorlea. Thank you very much, Lhasa Cairn Coorlea. And I thank Deputy Cui for raising this very important matter. To be very specific and clear, in the first instance, I advised that from 2013 in terms of local authority homes that 75,000 were completed in terms of retrofit out to 2021. Secondly, there is a scheme in place specifically to deal with local authority housing and give them a deep retrofit, which was revised last year. The scheme will be aimed globally in this country to do 500,000 houses up to B2, optimal equivalent of BER rating. And again, that will be giving people an alternative who are reliant on fossil fuels that they will now have an alternative going into the future. But it will take time. I think government has to be honest about that. You know, we are at capacity now in our construction sector, higher than we were at recessionary or post-pre-recessionary times. We have a massive retrofitting scheme underway, and we have some of the biggest capital infrastructure projects underway in this country, €165 billion to be delivered in the next decade. So government is working at pace to deliver those 500,000 homes. So for the specifics, we have the biggest retrofitting scheme in the country, since the state was formed underway to deliver half a million homes in this state. 75,000 from our local authority stock has been completed from 2013. In relation to the parliamentary question you asked of Minister O'Brien, I will revert to him to get the specific stock that are reliant on fossil fuels and go directly to you with the response to that. Thank you.