Éamon Ó Cuív: Labour Shortages, Upskilling and Automation

We have an unusual problem in this country at the moment and that is that there seems to be a huge labour shortage and a huge skills shortage and I am wondering what your department are doing to ensure that there will be an adequate pool of potential employees to meet the requirements of the labour market. The period from early 2020 was a very difficult one for many businesses. Some sectors were more severely affected by the public health restrictions than others and for a more prolonged period. Throughout this time the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and its enterprise agencies engaged with businesses and put in place a range of financial assistance to help protect as many jobs and save as many businesses as possible. The latest CSO figures for the last quarter of last year showed that employment has recovered strongly. This coincided with the easing of public health restrictions and Ireland's vaccination programmes, highlighting the importance of the government's efforts to assist workers and businesses, especially through those wage supports which help businesses maintain a link to their staff. I fully understand that many businesses are struggling with additional costs, particularly the cost of energy and other inputs linked to the pandemic and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I convened a meeting of the Enterprise Forum to hear firsthand how the war in Ukraine is affecting businesses in Ireland and we are considering what further measures we can take to help companies. We are very much aware of labour shortages in a lot of sectors and we must respond through a combination of training and upskilling, education, further education and training and the employment permits regime which Minister English spoke about earlier, but employment permits are only part of the answer. Some of the shortfalls in labour are due to pre-existing structural shifts which have been accelerated by the pandemic. The digital and green transitions are altering the economy and leading to permanent changes in our labour market and business models. While not all jobs will return as we recover from the pandemic, embracing these transitions will open up substantial new employment opportunities as well as potential skills mismatches as these opportunities initially emerge. The Government's economic recovery plan commits to supporting the transition of Ireland's economy and workforce to the new digital and green economies. This goal will be realised through ongoing support for people in securing and remaining in a sustainable and quality employment in areas of identified skills and needs for business. This will be achieved in particular through a combination of 50,000 upskilling and reskilling opportunities and increased labour market activation interventions. The first part of the question kind of avoided the question, not skilfully, or the first part of the reply. I was wondering, have you gone at this systematically? For example, what analysis has been done in relation to skill shortages in Ireland? To quantify it and to identify what skills were short in. In relation to those skills shortages, has an analysis been carried out as to how these might be filled? Number one, by retraining and activation. Number two, by redirecting the focus of our third level and apprenticeships programmes. Number three, by having an attractive package to attract our own emigrants who have emigrated and got fantastic skills back into Ireland by dealing with issues such as the driver licence issue, by dealing with issues such as relocation expenses. Has any analysis been carried out as to the parts of the EU where there are still labour who might be willing to come to Ireland and might be attracted to come here? And finally, the number of places that we would need to attract from countries outside of the EU to fill whatever gap is on the market. Because my understanding is that a lot of employers, what is making Ireland unattractive is the lack of a labour force. Thanks very much Deputy. A lot of analysis has been carried out. We have an analysis unit in my department on labour market and future skills. There is also the Future Skills Need Working Group and ESRI does some work on this as well, as does the National Competitiveness and Productivity Council, which falls under my department's remit. As you rightly point out though, it is a comprehensive issue. It is not just an issue for my own department. It is an issue for the Department of Social Protection and also the Department of Education and Further and Higher Education and Skills. So part of the solution is education and training. We will be up to 10,000 apprentices a year quite soon. I think it is about 8,000 this year. That is a lot. There were very few people going into apprenticeships only a few years ago. It was a couple of hundred or a couple of thousand. We will be up to 10,000 a year quite soon. I mentioned the 50,000 upskilling and reskilling opportunities. Work permits and work visas are issuing more than ever before. We need to do more to make work pay, to make sure that it is attractive for people to go into employment, to work more hours. You will know what we are doing in relation to sick pay, living wage. Deputy Nocton mentioned earlier the PRSI step effect, which we need to deal with in some budgets sooner or later. There is also the issue of automation. It may not be possible to provide labour to do everything and we will need to automate more things. That is already happening, but it is going to have to accelerate. Minister, I have heard that automation was going to do away with all the jobs since I was a young lad and I am not that young anymore. What it has actually done is just changed the jobs, but not done away with the jobs. We have more jobs in this economy than you had in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and so on. Automation is great, it takes away a lot of boring jobs, but it does not inevitably, in the end, do away with jobs. Which is a good thing, I think. I was wondering, is there any plan in your department to publish a comprehensive cross-sectoral policy approach to this? So that there would be a comprehensive, as you said, all embracing across all the different departments, approach to labour shortages. And then, as I said in the final analysis, we will have to look beyond the European Union for skilled people who might be interested in coming here. But it seems, without a very detailed and comprehensive plan, it is not going to be possible to look at all of the possible ways of dealing with this. You know, an interesting issue in our economy, but one that we need to deal with very, very urgently. Thank you, Deputy. Deputy Durkan, I am hoping to reach two further questions. I will not delay you. I was a member of this House when it was a great struggle to achieve one million people at work in the workforce. We are now heading, the next goal is three million. I think everybody is to be congratulated for that. But the important thing is to be able to identify and take action on the issue, which is a shortage of employees at the present time. And take it quickly. To conclude on this question. Thanks. Thanks very much, deputies. This is an interesting debate and one that we should give more time to, I think. I would like to echo Deputy Durkan's comments. You know, it is only 20 years ago, it is not that long ago, that there were 3.5 million people in the country and 1 million people at work. We now have 5.1 or 5.2 million people in the country, a 50% increase in population in 20 or so years. And 2.3, 2.4 million people at work and more than doubling of the number of people at work in Ireland. And that is extraordinary. Now it has come with it other consequences. You know, a shortage of housing, huge strains of our infrastructure, all of these problems. But it is a good thing that as a country our population is rising, people want to come to live here. Our birth rate is still healthy and there are more people at work than ever before. I think going back to the Luddites, there were people predicting that automation would eliminate employment. That is not my view at all. But we are at the moment offering a lot of work permits to a lot of people to come in here to work on very low wages in jobs that actually can be automated. And we need to think about that and the logic behind it, for example. And I do take the point that Deputy makes around looking at – we have looked at all these issues around workforce needs and demands, kind of in sections and silos, and maybe we need to do something more in the range. I think the point that Deputy O'Keefe makes in that regard is a good one and I will take it into consideration. Thank you, Tony. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much.