Éamon Ó Cuív presses for Defence Commission decisions and prison review

Minister, I thank you to Galeo in asking the question because you have been asked it previously tonight and this is about the Defence Force Commission and when will decisions be made on the recommendations of the Commission and you might let us in on which option you are going for tonight as well. Deputy, I would love to give you a load of detail on that but I think I owe it to my Cabinet colleagues probably to tell them first. All I can say to you is that I had given a commitment to bring recommendations to Government on the Commission report in the month of June. We are at the end of June now so this will be done very shortly, hopefully next week but if we can't get agreement next week it will be the following week. But I hope to be able to do this shortly. There has been an enormous amount of work both from the Chief of Staff and his team and from my Secretary General and her team in relation to trying to get this right. The civil military cooperation I would say in relation to turning this Commission report into an action plan is the single most impressive process of cooperation I have seen between civil and military in my time anyway in the Department of Defence and previously also. There is a genuine commitment between the Chief of Staff and the Secretary General to work incredibly closely together to make sure that we turn what is a really credible good report with a very strong evidence base for its recommendations into an action plan that is real for Defence Force personnel across the country. And I hope to be able to bring those recommendations to Government hopefully as soon as next week but certainly within the next two weeks. But this is going to cost a lot of money and it is not easy to get a series of recommendations of this scale agreed and we are working with other Government colleagues to be able to do that as soon as we possibly can. Minister, do you accept that the Defence Forces have lost skills in recent years because people have left the Defence Forces because of the unattractive wages or salaries and conditions in the Defence Forces? And will you be making sure that that issue is addressed, number one, when decisions are being made on the Commission's report? And can I also ask you, Minister, is there any consideration being given to having a second naval port, a subsidiary one along the west coast of Ireland? Because it seems strange in an island of this size that we only have one naval port, particularly as there are, I understand, recommendations to improve the naval service and to provide more ships, etc. So Debbie, first of all, in relation to the consultation around this, I have been to virtually every barracks in the country and I have asked the Defence Forces to put a balanced selection of people into a room with me. I have taken questions for a couple of hours in most cases and that includes Donegal, Galway, it includes Cork, Athlone, Dublin, the Curragh. So we have met as many Defence Forces personnel as we possibly can to explain to them what we're trying to do here, the rationale for upsizing, not downsizing or rationing, upsizing the Defence Forces significantly in the years ahead. And how we're going to do that in terms of restructuring, how we're going to bring about a new culture in the Defence Forces and how both the policy certainty and funding certainty that are needed is also going to be provided by government. So it's been a really good process and we've encouraged Defence Force personnel to be blunt and to be honest in terms of their frustrations and concerns, as well as their ambitions for the future of an organisation that they're deeply committed to. So that's been a good process and they're very much involved and they know exactly what's happening. Thank you. Actually, in relation to Deputy O'Keeve's questions, we are actually looking at a naval docking facility on both the East Coast and West Coast. I think it makes sense for lots of reasons. We're looking at what's called double crewing for ships in the future, which means a lot more people in the naval service, but also less time at sea and more time for the ships at sea. In order to do that well, I think we have to have a base or a mini base, if you want to call it that, on the West Coast serving the West Coast and the North West Coast and on the East Coast serving the Irish Sea. Thank you, Minister. But we haven't decided on locations for that yet. Thank you, Minister. Minister, you were talking about money and the need to save money. One item of expenditure that I understand is recommended to be done away with in the Commission report is the need for a military presence at the E-Wing in Port Alicia Prison. This is costing £2.74 million. There are 12 prisoners there. The vast majority of them are due out within two years. In fact, some are due out before the end of this very summer. They're already getting temporary releases. It seems an amazing cost at €200,000 a pop that we have this. And these are by no means the prisoners that caused the greatest threat to this state at this time. Can you tell me, is this matter going to be seriously looked at? Because it seems to me to be unnecessary, no, whatever justification was there in the past. In relation to Port Leach Prison, I don't believe that it's either justifiable or necessary for the Defence Forces to have the presence they have in Port Leach Prison indefinitely into the future. My view is that the Defence Forces should be phased out of Port Leach Prison. But, of course, we have to work with the Department of Justice and the Prison Service to do that efficiently. But, you know, if we are trying to narrow the scope of what we're asking the Defence Forces to do, I think this is one of the areas where they have done a fantastic job. But I think that the Prison Service should be able to replicate that work without having Defence Force personnel in Port Leach Prison. That takes up a lot of resourcing, actually, and it's quite expensive. And I think the Defence Forces could be used elsewhere more effectively in terms of their core role. So, that's a recommendation in the report, I strongly agree with it. I don't think it will happen overnight because, obviously, these things need to be managed. But I certainly intend to pursue it in a reasonable timeline. Thank you, Minister.