Kathleen Funchion urges protections for surrogacy-born children

Minister, this question is in relation to your department and what assurances they can offer to children who find themselves in a situation where their mother is not considered by the state as their legal parent, this relates to children who have been born through surrogacy, any proposed legislation is still some time away and what proposals to protect a child's rights and welfare are there in the interim, and I know that you are supportive of this issue and have met with groups, I just wanted the opportunity to raise it again, thanks. The issue of surrogacy is one of the most complex areas to deal with and it requires compassion and sensitivity but also a very strong emphasis on the welfare of the children who are born as a result of this process, there has been substantial work and engagement on the wider issue related to future legislation since the formation of the government between the Minister for Justice, the Minister for Health, the Attorney General and myself, my colleague the Minister for Health has lead responsibility for legislation in this area and his department is working on the drafting of a bill on assisted human reproduction, AHR. This comprehensive piece of legislation encompasses the regulation for the first time of a wide range of practices undertaken in this jurisdiction, including domestic altruistic surrogacy and I understand that officials in the Department of Health and the Office of the Attorney General will continue to engage intensively over the coming weeks to finalise this legislation. The Children and Family Relationship Act 2015 reforms and updates family law to address the needs of children living in diverse family types. The Minister for Health is also responsible for parts 2 and 3 of this Act and these parts were commenced in May 2020 and parts 2 and 3 deal with the issue of donor assisted human reproduction. While legislation in the area of surrogacy is complex, it is important to note that there are some important protections in place for children in advance of its enactment. The Department of Foreign Affairs has published guidelines for intending parents pursuing surrogacy arrangements abroad. The Irish authorities require intending parents to provide a written undertaking that they will notify their local health centre of the child's presence within two working days of their arrival in the State. In addition, the genetic father is required to provide an undertaking that he will apply to the court for a declaration of parentage and a guardianship order in relation to the child. This is to ensure that his legal relationship with the child is established, that he is in a position to make decisions on behalf of the child and the intending father must provide an appropriate DNA evidence. An intending mother of child born through surrogacy is entitled to apply for guardianship of the child where she is married to or in a civil partnership with the child's parent or has cohabited with the child's parent. While these current protections are important, we all recognise that in the best interests of children should be supported through robust regulation of surrogacy. This is a priority for government and is reflected in the programme for government. Thank you, Minister. As I said, I wanted to raise this issue again and I know that it falls into a number of departments. There is justice and there is health as well. I know that you have met with the groups. In fairness, I think you actually went out to them the day they were here outside the Dáil as well. It is so frustrating for them, though, because they do hear a lot of very positive words in this chamber and through their meetings. Yet, it is rare that everyone in this chamber agrees on something. It is one of those issues that we seem to and there does not seem to be any actual movement on it. I understand that with the upcoming legislation, I would say that that definitely needs to deal with international surrogacy. That cannot be left out of it, but I would say as well that for children who are here now who might be potentially in a precarious situation, for example, if there is a health issue within the family, particularly around the father, are they going to be in a situation where they are technically parentless? I know we all know that they will not actually be parentless, but in the eyes of the state, that is really, really important. We could have some children really being stuck in a grey area. I do think it is an issue the groups have been raising for a very long time. I think there is a responsibility on us now as legislators to ensure that we can actually get this to you, particularly when there is such a cost-party agreement. I am in agreement with pretty much everything you have said there. I think the issue of international surrogacy is going to have to be addressed. We know this is a very sensitive and very complex area, and I think we have to ensure that in whatever measures we bring forward. It obviously offers protection for children when they come to Ireland. It offers protection for their parents, but it should also offer protection to the surrogate mother as well. I think that is really important, and that will be somebody probably in another jurisdiction. We have to be reassured that the protections are in place for there, and that a child conceived through surrogacy can seek to establish relations with their surrogate mother in the future, if they so want. But I think you are absolutely right in terms of the children who are here now. Children conceived through different techniques, and the law that we bring forward has to address all of those situations, and often quite different, and there may have to be bespoke legal solutions for each situation in which a child has been conceived. I suppose there are two things I am wondering if we can do out of this to try and have some practical solutions. The first one would be in relation to the upcoming legislation. Maybe if I yourself and the Minister for Health and Justice could write, I think it actually falls into the Health Committee, although I would argue some of it should fall to the Children's Committee, because it is a children's rights interest, to see if we can progress that legislation, the pre-led scrutiny stage, as a matter of urgency. Given that there is consensus, I think that it is something that could move very quickly through committee and through the House, and I think everyone would support that. That would be the first thing, because we do need to look at that legislation and the international surrogacy. Then for existing children, children who are already here and with us, is there a possibility, because there is really good legal representation in relation to the surrogacy groups, and they actually have really good solutions based on sort of international best practice, for want of better words, is it possible, and I know you have met with groups, but is it possible to have maybe a more formal meeting, the three relevant ministers or three relevant departments with those groups, about how we can formalise the situation now for children existing here now, and that they can be taken out of this grey area, that we can actually do within a matter of months. I know I am over time, but just really briefly, we have seen so often in here, over the last nearly two years, how we can pass legislation in a matter, you know, when it is urgent, when it is an emergency, and I do think that we can do the same in relation to children and surrogacy. Thanks. I certainly agree, I think the urgency is important here, and I am sure you agree though, it is also important that we get this right, just in light of the real complexity and the different situations that we are dealing with here. And look, as I say, I know the HR bill is being advanced by Minister Donnelly, I think that went underwent pre-ledge in the previous Oireachtas, but as you have pointed out, that area around international surrogacy is not addressed, and I think an Oireachtas committee could well be a useful manner of doing that. I know Minister Donnelly and Minister McEntee have been engaging very intensively on this, because I suppose, while I am obviously from, as Minister for Children, I have an issue ensuring the best interest principle is always respected, the actual legislative power is primarily with health, but also with justice as well. So I know those two departments have been engaging very intensively, and I know particularly Minister McEntee is very eager that the engagement we have had with the groups, who, as you say, are very expert in this area, does continue, and I am sure that engagement will continue. Thank you. Thank you.