Kathleen Funchion challenges private-for-profit foster care reliance

Thanks very much, Cahirlech. Minister, my question is in relation to the care system and just the degree to which you remain satisfied with the current arrangement that sees private-for-profit foster care companies fulfilling the government's obligation in regard to children in care. Thanks. Thanks very much, Deputy. So, foster care is the preferred option in Ireland for children who cannot live with their parents or guardians. Approximately 89% of children who are in care are currently being cared for by foster carers, enabling them to live in a safe, secure and stable home environment. Foster care provision in an Irish context can be described as general foster care or relative foster care. In the case of general foster care, this can in turn be provided by foster carers who engage directly by TSLA or by foster carers who work with private foster care agencies. Non-statutory foster care agencies are governed by the same legislation, regulations and standards as statutory foster care services provided by TSLA. TSLA, through its alternative care inspection and monitoring services, is responsible for the monitoring of private non-statutory foster care agencies in compliance with the National Standards for Foster Care 2003. In addition, HICWA undertakes regulatory inspections of the non-statutory foster care agencies, and the findings of these inspections can inform governance and regulatory activities. I am fully conscious that over-reliance on private providers in any context brings with it certain inherent risks. In this context, the deputy may be aware of the relevant commitments contained within TSLA's strategic plan for foster care services for children and young people 22-25 on this issue. As part of recommendation three in this plan, TSLA have committed to reviewing the use of private foster care providers and to develop a clear scope for the use of such agencies. In addition, I also welcome TSLA's commitment contained in recommendation three of the plan to examine the potential for using private foster care agencies for specific placement types with more robust service levels agreements to reference the rates of fostering allowance and support services for foster carers. As I have stated, I have very much welcomed the commitments contained within this plan in respect of the use of private foster care agencies, in addition to the numerous other commitments contained in the plan to improve foster care services for children and young people in care across all models of foster care provision. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Minister. I am asking this question, I suppose, because we recently got a PQ back where it illustrated that 19 million up until the 6th of August this year, 19 million was spent in relation to private services and that 485 children, which equates to 9.3 per cent, were placed with non-statutory fostering agencies, which were the private for-profit agencies. So, look, I just think when we look also, that the figures released, I think yesterday, in relation to TSLA and the high turnover of staff, that something is obviously not working in the system, you know, that we don't really want a situation where children are going into these private fostering arrangements. And one thing that I have come across a lot, and I have had a number of conversations, good conversations in fairness with TSLA in relation to this, is where there is family members, particularly grandparents, who want to foster, who want to foster, and there is some sort of a breakdown, or just doesn't seem to be working, or they are not even deemed ineligible, but that they don't seem to qualify, and that they are trying to keep the children, well, obviously within the family and within sort of a home environment, but they don't always qualify for the payment as well, and that is very, very difficult, particularly if you are at an age where you are retired and you feel your family is raised and you are not going to necessarily, you know, need to be out working again. So, I think we need to try and see how we can examine this, because it is clearly not working at the moment. Sorry, Chair, for going over. Thanks. Thanks, Deputy. I think TSLA are doing a very significant piece of work on the whole area of alternative care. They are bringing forward three key documents, the document on residential care that was published a couple of months ago, the foster care plan we were just talking about now that is just published, and then they are bringing forward a document on alternative care, sorry, after care as well, so the three kind of core elements of alternative care. I don't know, it might be useful maybe at committee if we maybe dedicate a committee sitting once the third one is out that we discuss all three together, because there are real challenges in terms of TSLA, but I think the foster care plan is really important in terms of TSLA, recognising there are challenges there, both in terms of its own recruitment and retention of staff, but also in terms of its support of foster carers. I know I attended the IFCA conference there two weeks ago. I spoke to them in terms of my determination to address a number of issues in terms of the weekly rate they are paid, but in terms of other issues around mileage allowances in terms of the availability of the back-to-school allowance and the like, just those kind of things that make it that little bit more difficult for each foster parent and seeing how we can address them as quickly as possible. Thanks. Actually, we're looking at foster care in committee. I can't remember now if you've been in on that topic yet, Minister, but I think we have you potentially slotted in for some point, so expect an invitation. But no, definitely we have been looking at it in committee and it's something we haven't finished all our hearings on it. So there definitely needs to be, I would agree with that, there needs to be more kind of a joined-up approach and joined-up thinking, because the other side of it is you have people that potentially we can keep out of the foster care system, and that's ultimately what we really want to see, like the home support service that TUSLA runs and can maybe tie in with the school liaison service and stuff like that. And of course, I think we always need to tap into services like the school completion that I'm a big advocate for. So that's part of that too, as well, obviously trying to avoid the foster care system where it all costs. And actually, when we were looking at it in committee, Senator Lynne Moran made some really good points as well about supports for families who obviously don't want to see their children go into foster care and then maybe something has happened in their life and then they're trying to get back on the right track and are not always given the same level of support that they could need. So I think that there does need to be like a piece of work done on just kind of how we bring it all together. But definitely, you know, it always worries me when we're doing anything in kind of the privatisation road. So definitely going down the private for-profit agencies is not where I personally am. And I wouldn't think that you would want to see us going down that road either. Thanks. Thanks, Deputy. Look, I'd certainly be happy to have an engagement with the committee on this issue. Look, I think we can continue to be reasonably proud as a country that in terms of where children are taken into care, 89% of them are in foster care rather than in residential. And it is a strong proportion compared to other European countries. Obviously, we want to avoid any child going into care. But where it's necessary, it is good that it's in a home, in a family home, and particularly in the point you made in terms of relative foster care as well. And we need to support those foster carers. And I know having engaged with IFCA, I'll be meeting another group soon, and having spoken with them, I know they don't feel sufficiently supported. And I outlined at the IFCA conference the steps government in my department and my engagement with other colleagues to do more. The two-slip plan, I think, does put a clear roadmap in terms of how we can better support foster parents. But as I say, happy to engage in the committee and I suppose hear from what you've heard in terms of steps we can take as well. Thank you. Thank you so much.