Senator John McGahon- speech from 2 Dec 2021

Minister, first of all I want to thank you for coming to the House today, I know you're extremely busy and it just shows your commitment to DKIT and the Dundalk region and its education that you're here in person to take this commencement matter and I want to thank you for that. I suppose from my own perspective it's been very disheartening when we see around the country all of these TUs starting up and yet Dundalk isn't there. The reason why Dundalk isn't there is very well known and I'm not here today to cast blame on individuals or people as to why we aren't at the standard of where we are. I'm here today Minister to try and find a way forward with you for the future of DKIT and higher education in the North East. And there's a couple of key questions that I suppose I'm hoping to try and get some clarity on from today's debate. The first bit of clarity would be the Section 38. Now the Section 38 was originally made in legislation to allow for an IT to join an existing TU. I guess one of the fears that I would have is that the Department had never really envisaged a Section 38 having to be used for quite a considerable time because the concept was that TUs are a really good thing and every IT in the country would want to be getting on board and for the reasons outlined previously, DKIT has been slow to grasp that nettle. So the clarity that I'd be hoping for today is from you or from the HAA that the procedures behind the Section 38 are in place and that when an application does come in from TKIT for a TU that you as the Minister and your department are standing ready and willing to be able to assist DKIT in joining up with a TU. Because I think that's a very important thing. When we live in an era of misinformation or we live in an era of soundbite, I think it's disingenuous for politicians anywhere to try and suggest that DKIT could be a standalone university. There is no such thing as standalone universities in the legislation. The TUs are the combination of ITs to make technological universities, not standalone universities. And we have to be very clear about it in Dundalk as well. To be blunt about it, 4,000 students is not the critical mass for a standalone university. It's absolutely not and it's totally and utterly disingenuous to suggest. And it's actually a lack of knowledge about the whole process to suggest that Dundalk could be a standalone university. The second point I'd like to make is in terms of the shared island funding. Naturally with Dundalk being a geographical location, it's a border town. One of the fears that may be there is that while we are in the process of joining a TU, that we may miss out on any potential funding from a shared island unit. That that funding could perhaps go to, you know, TUs and that DKIT at that stage could be left behind until rejoining to a TU. So it would be really great to get some sort of clarity or confirmation, Minister, that DKIT, while it's in this transition stage before it gets into a TU, won't be overlooked for any type of shared island funding that's coming out of the shared island unit. The other point I'd like to make is to take the opportunity, Minister, to praise you for the work that you've done on this. You've met with Oireachtas members from County Lowth, County Meath, Cabin Monaghan so many times over the last year. You've met with stakeholders involved at DKIT. You've personally been able to meet me at any stage to discuss DKIT, and I want to put on the record of this house to say thank you for that. And I would like to take this opportunity, Minister, to perhaps invite you to DKIT at some stage in the next couple of months or perhaps early in the new year where we could meet with stakeholders directly, where you can see the campus for itself, have people who are involved with the everyday life of DKIT outline their ambitions for you, where we see it going with the TU, and I'd really appreciate some clarity on Section 38, the concept that it will never really be able to be a stand-alone university and how that's disingenuous, the shared island funding and perhaps coming to DKIT at some stage in the future. Thank you, Senator Mcgahan. Now the call on Minister Howes. I want to thank my colleague, Senator John Mcgahan, for tabling this important debate today about Dundalk IT, and crucially about ensuring we have a technological university for the north-east of the country. I want to also thank him for really keeping and indeed putting this item on the political agenda and for all the engagement and discussions we've had in relation to this. Let me be really clear at the outset. The north-east is not going to be left behind, and this government, myself personally and my department are absolutely committed to ensuring that the north-east has a technological university or is part of a technological university. The north-east needs a technological university, it needs it for a whole load of reasons, including access to university status within the region, but it also needs it in terms of regional development, in terms of balanced regional development, ensuring people can invest in the region too. So from an investment point of view, a rural Ireland regional development point of view, a border point of view and an education point of view, this needs to happen. Now we all know the reason why it hasn't happened to date, and we're not going to get into that today, other than to note it is a statement of fact that no minister has an ability to create a technological university, and rightly so, without an application being submitted. And I will be extraordinarily happy to receive an application in relation to DKIT becoming part of the technological university. So to be really clear, I fully recognise and value the very important contribution of Dundalk Institute of Technology. I want to thank everybody in DKIT for what they're doing today. It's continuing to make a very significant and positive impact in the north-east, obviously in Dundalk and Louth, but in the region. And in order to achieve further progress, I remain strongly committed to enabling the institute's participation within a multi-campus technological university. It is now, as you've rightly said, one of only two institutes of technology, not part of a technological university, or in development of becoming one as well. Now, I'm pleased to say, if we were having this discussion a couple of months ago, we'd be in a very different place. We are in a position to report significant progress today, because Dundalk IT has now published its vision earlier this year. And in its vision, it said it wants to become a dynamic, accessible, student-centred campus within a multi-campus regional TU. So standalone university isn't their vision, nor is it legally possible. This is their vision, and every politician, in my view, and every stakeholder in Dundalk needs to get on board with this and in Louth. Dundalk IT, the staff, the students, the governing authority and the management team have come together and put out this vision for what they want. And this is in and of itself meaningful progress on a proposed trajectory towards achieving a TU status. I'm delighted to say also the elaboration of this vision does provide certainty, and it should enable staff, students and wider stakeholders to now be assured of the direction of travel. So the debate over what will happen or where do we want DKIT to go, that debate is kind of over in my view. Because once that strategic vision was published and all stakeholders and DKIT bought into it, we now have that certainty. I'm also pleased to report to the Shannon and to you, Senator McGahan, that the Institute has also now put in place a structure to drive on this project. There's a project team, there's a steering group, there's a lot of actually really good work now going on too. And I'm very pleased to say that we're now actually providing exchequer funding. So even though it isn't yet a TU, we are providing funding through the Technological University Transformation Fund. So we're putting our money where our mouth is in terms of wanting to advance this agenda. And this is a fund administered by the Higher Education Authority as well. And not only that, I'm also pleased to say in addition to the funding, we have now provided a dedicated special expert advisor to DKIT to drive this project. And this has been key in my experience to delivering technological universities. And I want to thank on the record of the House, Dr Rory Nevin for the work that he's doing. He's providing technical knowledge and advice to the Institute. And I understand as recently as yesterday that this work is going well. So funding in place, expert advisor in place, shared vision in place. Let's absolutely visit DKIT. And let's also meet with broader stakeholders in the economic and societal setup of the North East. Because we're going to get here. But I think what we need the region now to do is to prepare as to how it can harness what could be a real powerhouse for growth and education in the North East. Government, let's. Thank you very much, Minister. Senator McGahn. Thank you so much for that, Minister. That is exactly the type of clarity and the clear sense and clear thinking that I was hoping to get from this debate. And I very much appreciate it. So bluntly to try and finish it up. I think it's very important that you have outlined this concept of a standalone university. One, absolutely not legally possible. Two, not even part of the strategic vision of the people involved in DKIT themselves. It's clear in black and white that they want to be part of a technological university. I think it is very important that, as you mentioned, Rory Nevin there, the expert advisor, we are now assisting in the transition already towards a technological university. And I think that is very important. And the key thing from this whole debate, Minister, where I took the most heart from it is your clear commitment that once an application comes from DKIT straight to your ministerial desk, you're ready and willing to approve it and start the process officially. And I will be very much looking forward to welcoming you to DKIT in the near future. Thank you to Senator McGahan. Look, I think when people look back on 2021, I think it will be seen as a very significant year for making progress for the North East in terms of education, in terms of higher education and in terms of the future of DKIT. It will be the year in which there was an agreed plan through that vision, the year in which there was funding put in place and the year in which the expert advisor was appointed. And I should have said in my earlier comments in relation to section 38, there will be no blockages in my department or in the HEA in relation to progressing any application that comes forward. And I must say, in fairness to the HEA, they have a really good track record on this, because they have had a very busy year of assessing technological university applications. And I thank them for that. And the final point I just make is the important point you've made in relation to the Shared Island Fund. I'm spending Sunday and Monday in the North having conversations actually about greater collaboration. And there is no there is no Institute better positioned and maybe Leisure Kenny and Dundalk to actually engage in cross-border collaboration and cooperation. And I'm looking forward when I visit Queen's to having a conversation about even interim measures that might be able to be put in place to ensure greater student mobility north and south of the border. But certainly the Shared Island Fund administered by the Department of the Taoiseach is absolutely there for all collaborations and DKIT. They will not in any way, shape or form miss out at this transition point. But look, I'm really looking forward to 2022. I think we can make a lot of progress for DKIT and for the North East. Thank you.