Deputy Mary Lou McDonald - speech from 14 May 2020

Again, today we acknowledge those that have been lost to this virus now, almost 2,000 souls across our island, and we extend our sympathies and our solidarity to their families, friends and communities. Taoiseach, you've set out quite correctly the fact that we will gradually unwind the emergency measures that we have asked people to live with over the last number of weeks. I think we all agree that that is the sensible, that is the prudent, in fact that is the only way to proceed. It's worth acknowledging also that the heroic efforts of those on the front line will be necessary for some time to come. We need to find a modus vivendi, a way of living with this virus, and that's going to be extremely challenging. So we look to the future, and people look with anticipation and hope, and also with the level of anxiety, because our health and the health of our families must come first. So I want to ask you Taoiseach specifically today about the child care support scheme that was mooted for those front line workers. Because nurses, doctors, health care assistants and others that we rely on at the front line of the COVID-19 pandemic had a legitimate expectation that, as and from Monday, they would avail of child care under this scheme that you announced last Thursday. However, last night it was announced that this scheme would, in fact, be cancelled. And those that would rely on this child care discovered this fact through the media. The stakeholders across sectors discovered it by way of press release. The primary reason for the collapse of this scheme is because the insurance industry say that they will not underwrite, they will not cover COVID-related incidents. They say that they have made the government aware of that for weeks and weeks on end, and yet this scheme was announced. It seems to be an extraordinary thing that government announced a scheme which was sure to fail. So I have a number of questions for you Taoiseach. I want to know if you are aware of this insurance issue. Were you aware of the fact that the insurer Allianz was saying that they would not cover COVID-related incidents? I want to ask, why, therefore, did this announcement go ahead? Why is it that government announced a scheme that was so fatally undermined and flawed? Were you aware that this would prove unworkable because of the stance of the insurance industry? And then above all else, Tisha, I want to ask you this, because we can fix this. I want to ask you why it is that you have not sought to indemnify childcare workers in this COVID emergency to provide that support and assistance to our frontline workers. Why will you not extend the indemnity that applies already to some 200,000 workers, so the scheme exists? Why is it that you won't extend that scheme to cover those childcare workers who are now needed to support the frontline in a very direct way and to indemnify them for that COVID risk? That seems to me to be the solution now, in the here and now, for this dilemma. First of all, it is with great regret that the childcare scheme for healthcare workers cannot go ahead. The focus now of Minister Zapone and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs will be getting creches and childcare facilities open by the end of June for all essential frontline workers first, and then more broadly after that, and that's going to be their focus for the next couple of weeks. Minister Zapone and her department, I know, put a lot of work into developing this scheme. They developed the scheme. There was consultation, perhaps not enough, but there was consultation with the sector, and as well as that they secured the funding for it. But ultimately, for lots of different reasons, and it wasn't just insurance, for lots of different reasons, the uptake from the childcare sector was very low, and they gave numbers of reasons beyond insurance, including issues around Garda vetting or the general concern that a childcare provider would have in being responsible for an employee that isn't on their premises, that is actually in somebody's private home. So there were lots of reasons that they gave as to why they weren't willing to sign up to it in the numbers that we would have needed. You asked me if I was aware of the insurance issue. No, I wasn't. First I heard about that was on the RT News. But that is not to say that others weren't aware of it, you know, in the department or perhaps within within my department even. But it isn't possible to be aware of everything, unfortunately, given the nature of my job, and I'm sure you'd appreciate that. But I'm actually not sure that insurance is quite the issue that it's being made out to be. You know, there are tens of thousands of workplaces in Ireland open today, private and public sector. There will be tens of thousands more workplaces in Ireland open next week, and they will open, notwithstanding the fact that they do not have insurance against the virus. Because the truth is, this is a new virus. It is a deadly virus, but it's not the first virus we've dealt with, and not the only deadly virus that we've dealt with. And I'm not sure if it's ever been the case that insurers have indemnified employers for the possibility of being sued over getting a virus. So that's something that needs to be considered. But I'm not sure it is the barrier that perhaps is being made out to be, because there are already so many workplaces in Ireland open now this week, and will open next week, that are potentially higher risk than a childcare facility, and yet that insurance doesn't exist. And I'm just not sure if it's possible to indemnify somebody against getting a virus, or even that you'd have much of a case if you tried to sue. The truth is that I could go into any house, any office, any workplace tomorrow, and pick up a virus, or a bug, or a bacteria. For me to then prove that it was somebody else's fault that I got that, that's a very unusual case to make. And I think you would only have a case if somebody deliberately tried to affect you, or was totally negligent in their actions. And I wouldn't like to indemnify anyone who deliberately tried to affect somebody, or was negligent in their actions. So this requires some thought, but I'm not sure your analysis of it is correct. So, Tisha, I have correspondence here from a childcare provider from the Arrakis Child Care Insurance Team, and it's dated the 7th of May. That was the day on which the government scheme was announced. And this correspondence makes two things absolutely clear. It makes clear that the insurers were in constant contact with the government for some six weeks, and that they set out very, very clearly that they would not cover COVID instances. They made that clear, and I am alarmed to hear, Tisha, that you didn't know that this problem existed. You should have known, in my view, notwithstanding your busyness. The correspondence sets out that exposure, potential exposure to the COVID-19 virus, they say, represents a material change in circumstances, it heightens risks, and they're not prepared to cover it. Now, let me just say this to you, Tisha. The childcare sector and the over 25,000 early education and childcare workers across the land now, I am sure, are very alarmed in terms of what's happened for the frontline workers. Because you will recall last December, that many childcare providers were put under huge pressure because their premiums had gone through the roof. They had ballooned to the extent that it threatened the existence of these services. Many questioned whether or not they'd be able to open their doors again. And now we have this scenario, where insurers are saying that they are not prepared to cover COVID risk. And childcare providers have said very clearly that that was the main reason why this scheme collapsed. So, two questions again, Tisha. I have asked, therefore, that you step into the breach in this emergency situation and you indemnify those workers now that are required to support and to care for the children of our frontline workers. Because other than that, the frontline workers can't go to work. So, that's number one. I want you to ensure that people who put their life and their safety on the line for the rest of us actually have the childcare that was promised to them. And that means that the state has to intervene where the insurance industry will not. And the second question is this, Cian Ghorle. I want you to tell me what are the implications of this stance by the insurance industry for the childcare sector, for childcare workers and for parents more generally. Could we be facing into a situation in June, heaven forbid, in June, where you announce the reopening of childcare and crash facilities, but insurers either refuse to cover the risk or insist that the premiums of childcare providers balloon again? This has to be about ensuring that every parent has the childcare cover ultimately that they need, that childcare workers have jobs to return to. And immediately in the here and now, the government has to act. You promised workers on the frontline that they would have the support of childcare. You can act now to make sure that that is the case. By the way, it's happened in the north. In the north, the Department of Health, just because the Taoiseach likes to talk about the north occasionally, in the north, the Department of Health has conceded that insurers will not cover COVID risk. So now, in these emergency circumstances, they will cover those workers. And you should do the same. I can respond very, very briefly, and I'm sure this issue will be ongoing. You know, this is a matter that we're going to have to give consideration to as we work with the childcare sector to reopen creches and childcare facilities by the end of June. And we will, of course, examine what's being done in other countries and other jurisdictions, including Northern Ireland, to see if there are things that we can learn from there, too. Because there are other parts of Europe where creches and nurseries never closed and others where they have reopened. But the question that I would ask is, are insurers covering COVID-related risk in the tens of thousands of workplaces that are already open? Offices, factories, shops today, and the tens of thousands of more that will open next week. You know, it might be that this is not an insurable risk. And before we were to take on any indemnity from the state, we'd have to make sure that we're not indemnifying people who are negligent in their actions and are negligent in their actions in knowing that there's no consequence to that because the state or the taxpayer will cover their bills.