Deputy Mary Lou McDonald- speech from 22 Oct 2024

Teachta, our student nurses and midwives are incredible. They do invaluable nursing work while on placement on wards and in fact they keep our hospitals going. They do a minimum of 28 hours a week and they work far beyond their training duties. The MACU review of 2022 addressed pay for intern nurses. However, the new subsistence allowance for first to third year student nurses doesn't go far enough. and leave so many in very difficult circumstances. The review failed to address supports for other students working in clinical placement in our health service. One student nurse wrote to I think every TD at the weekend to say, in my first five weeks of studying to be a general nurse, I was told how to save a life, how to bathe a paralysed patient, how to care for the elderly and infants, but then went on to say, it is clear to me that the role of a student nurse is not valued. The work that student nurses and midwives do is invaluable. They are also experiencing a cost of living crisis. They struggle to find accommodation, they are forced to pay rip off rent when they do so, they are forced to commute long distances when they cannot. The mother of one student nurse wrote to my colleague Mauread Farrell to share the distressing situation that her daughter is in. She is a second year student nurse. She commutes a long distance to and from her placement because she cannot afford accommodation. She has slept on friends' sofas while working shifts in a maternity ward from 7.30am to 8.30pm. Now things are at breaking point for her. Her mother wrote this. She said, we now have to borrow money from family to put her up in a hotel for the days of her placement. The HSE told her not to even ask for reimbursement. We cannot afford €300 a week. We are on low incomes. We are sick at the thought of what will happen. The stress it is causing is sickening. She breaks her back studying and working. She has the loveliest nature and will be a lovely nurse. One of the nurses that our country is crying out for. Surely this cannot be right. This student nurse is not alone. So many others are pushed into very difficult situations while pursuing their qualification and working hard for us in our hospitals. And by the way, this isn't about a return to the apprenticeship model. This is about a fair deal for students working in our health service. So she has a fair deal for the work they do when on placement. Do you agree with me that healthcare workers in training should have a fair deal for the work they do when on placement? Will you commit to delivering that fair deal for first- to third-year student nurses and midwives? Thank you Deputy MacDonald. Thank you Deputy MacDonald. I want to thank Deputy MacDonald for raising this important issue. I join with her in acknowledging, as she rightly says, the very important role that student nurses play in our health system, in our hospitals, in our community during their training. She is quite right to make that point. Of course, student nurses in their fourth year and their final year are paid, but you are talking specifically about their first to third year as well. My colleague, the Minister for Health, I know, did have an expert review group that looked at the profession in general and how we could support people at all stages of their progression from the student nurse right through. My understanding is that that report did make a number of recommendations in relation to increased levels of support and subsistence, recognising things around travel and accommodation. I truthfully do not have it here in front of me, but from my memory I think this was something that would have been developed in consultation with the likes of the INMO as well. We are certainly happy, if there is a wish, to have further engagement on that with the representatives to do just that. You are right, we all want a fair deal for those that are providing care, albeit as students, in our hospitals, because that care is invaluable. We do want that to be fair and certainly we had taken some measures to endeavour to address that. Clearly you are outlining a case there that the Minister for Health would be happy to take a look at and maybe raise with nurse representative bodies like the INMO, because we were of the view that we had made some progress through that expert review group report. Let us take that away. I am very happy to do that. I would, while we are on the issue, make the broader point. You said not to mention the apprenticeship model, because I think that is separate to your question. I do get that. I would make the point that we have tried to broaden the number of places in the country where you can access nurse education education and tried to partner more with local hospitals in that area. Deputy Farrell, who has brought this issue to your attention, would know very much in the Galway area, working now with the tertiary degree programme, we have seen more opportunities for more people to access nursing courses closer to their home and also hopefully their placement in what we could call the local or regional hospital as well. I hope that will have a positive impact. We want more student nurses. We are trying to grow the number of people who are studying nursing. We are growing the number of college places in our healthcare professions. And, of course, if there are cases coming through of people who are finding that cost of living challenge acute, the Minister for Health will be happy to engage further on it. Thank you for that, Taoiseach. You remember during COVID there was a huge discussion around student nurses and midwives and the work that was being done and the fact that at that point that was not being adequately recognised and compensated. I just think it is really problematic that we are back in a space where young students of nursing and midwifery feel, again, that they are not being recognised and they are not being valued. The last thing we want is these young professionals feeling that they are not valued within the Irish health system and making a decision to make their contribution in Perth or Toronto or wherever that might be. The case brought to the attention of Deputy Farrell is by no means an isolated incident. This is a widespread experience and, in fact, many of the students are now talking about organising for demonstrations and to bring political pressure to bear on rightly. So, we have a proposal, Taoiseach, for a €3,000 bursary. We would like to discuss that with you. We hope that you would adopt, not least because we will be heading into elections very soon, you inform us, and young people and students working within the health care system are going to watch very carefully to see what we have to say and to see whether or not Taoiseach we are prepared to put our money where our mouths are. On this side of the House, we certainly are. I will send on details of the individual case to the Minister, but I hope you take the point, and it is made in good faith, that it is in all of our collective interest to get this right for these students, to make sure that they can live, that they can survive and, in fact, that they can thrive. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I am glad you have picked up my election hints. I thought they were rather subtle. There goes the surprise. Thank you. It is a serious issue the deputies are rising, and I do appreciate that. I would make the point fairly that we have significantly increased the level of supports to our student nurses. We did that, as you rightly say, arising from the debate around Covid and post-Covid in relation to the very important role being played by student nurses. I do not have the specific figures in front of me, but I think the level of support we are providing through that subsistence, travel and other supports has risen by several million over the last couple of years. But we are happy to engage further on this. I would also make the point to those student nurses. Of course, we have also done other things that will help them, along with other students, whether that is reducing student fees, improving student grants, making nursing available in more parts of the country and in ways that works for more people, and also extending the renter's tax credit to cover students as well. But I am very happy to take a look at it. The only thing I would say, as we come into that election season, we obviously do need to acknowledge there are lots of students carrying out important placements as well. Obviously, when you look at one group of nurses and student nurses are an extremely important group, having some degree of a consistent approach, I think, to all of the people that are playing an important role in our health services students is something that certainly I know other professions would mention to us regularly as well. But I am happy to follow up. Thank you.