Senator Gerard Craughwell- speech from 11 May 2022

Thank you very much, Minister Burke. I'm sorry that you've been thrown into this one as it's not your area of responsibility. It's regrettable that the Minister who is responsible for cyber security is not here. Minister, there's legislation scheduled to come before the Oireachtas in summer of 2022 in relation to cyber security, cyber crime bill is due here shortly. Minister, I have attended a number of conferences recently and engaged with quite a number of cyber security companies operating in the state. The first I heard of this legislation was when it was announced at the committee last week and I think that's simply not good enough. That legislation as important as cyber security would arrive without the opportunity for fair engagement right across the industry. As you know, Minister, the HSE attack in cyber security will have cost this country in excess of 100 million euros and probably a lot more by the time it's finished. We've also had a cyber attack on rehab and cyber attacks are part and parcel of every day now. The ambition set out by the newly appointed director of the National Cyber Security Centre is appallingly weak with respect to the number of people they expect to employ in that centre by 2023. Minister, the industry wants to engage with government. We want to be the best country in the world, the most cyber aware country, the most cyber protected country. And of course, you know yourself, Minister, we're never totally protected because the criminals are always one step ahead of us. But I have asked at the committee and I want you to relay this back to the government. I've written to the Taoiseach on this and I've said a couple of things. One, I do not know why cyber security is located in communications, transport, environment and climate action when it should be in defence or justice or more properly directly under the Department of the Taoiseach. To me, it makes absolutely no sense. It is primary defence of the nation. A cyber attack can bring this economy down in a nanosecond. And I do not believe the last time cyber was discussed in either house was in June of 2021. And that's simply not good enough. I think that it should be something that's discussed on a regular basis. I think the National Cyber Security Centre should be educating people all of the time rather than hiding in the background. The strategy 2019-2024 is a work of fiction because what it claims it has not delivered on Minister. And the bottom line on it is we have attracted the greatest companies in the world from an IT perspective. We have the Googles, the Twitters, the Facebooks, etc. Not only that, Minister, we also have a very large chemical industry here and a very large pharma industry here. We have a massive amount of R&D going on here. All we need is one successful attack on one of these companies and the likelihood is that we will see a flight from this country. Cyber security has to become the most important thing in this country because it is a battle that we are fighting all day, every day. So, Minister, I am really concerned that the legislation would be better to stall it. Now, we don't know what's in it, to stall it and let's have an engagement with the industry. Let's have the experts in here. We are lucky in this country because of the organisations we have in the country. We have some of the greatest minds in the world in relation to cyber security. We should be tapping into those minds to make sure that we have the best possible cyber defence in the world. And I would ask you to go back to government and say, look, let's stall this. Let's give the Transport Committee an opportunity to engage with these people and to inform the legislation that will come before the both houses, even if that's in the autumn of this year, rather than rushing it through in the summer. Thank you, Senator. You have four minutes to respond. Thank you, Coherlock. And to be fair to Senator Crockwell, I've heard you raise this issue a number of times in the past. I just want to apologise for the absence of the Department of Environment, Climate and Communications. Officials in the Department of Climate and Communications and Environment are in ongoing consultation with the cyber security industry. So that's obviously at variance what you're telling me. So we probably have to square that circle in terms of what it says in the reply. Cyber Ireland is a national industry cluster headquartered in Munster Technical University in Cork. Cyber Ireland's board membership includes Indigenous and multinational firms, as well as third-level institutions engaged in cyber education and research. Ministers and officials are in regular contact with Cyber Ireland and its members, and Minister Oisin Smith will tomorrow participate in the launch of Cyber Ireland's cyber security sector in Ireland report. Minister Smith will also soon be travelling to the US with the idea to promote Ireland as a destination for foreign direct investment. And during that visit, we'll meet with the multinational cyber security and digital services firms, which have a base here. The Government will continue to consult with Cyber Ireland and relevant stakeholders in industry and the academic community to inform the drafting of legislation and the forthcoming review of the national cyber security strategy later this year. I'd also like to highlight on behalf of the Minister that a large proportion of legislation covering cyber security in Ireland has its origins in the European Union, and officials are in frequent contact with Cyber Ireland and other industry stakeholders, both in Ireland and Brussels, to ensure Ireland's national positions are informed by the perspective of industry. The Department of Communications has conducted an extensive industry consultation following the publication of the European Commission's proposal for review of the network and information security directive in December 2020. Officials have continued to engage with industry stakeholders during the Council negotiations last year in the ongoing TRIOG negotiations. Most recently, officials have engaged with stakeholders around the Commission's industry consultation and forthcoming Cyber Resilience Act, which closes later this month. It is in respect of other key stakeholders, I can assure Senator Crockwell that the officials in the Department of Communications are regularly and in ongoing contact with relevant departments and agencies in drafting of legislation for the National Cyber Security Centre. The Government has agreed that legislation will delineate the NCSC's role in relation to other actors in the cyber area. The NCSC has long-standing cooperation with En Garda Siakana and the Defence Forces, including secondments of personnel. To address this ever-growing threat of cybercrime and malicious cyberactivity by State and non-State actors, it is essential that the cooperation can be expanded and deepened into the future. Thank you. Thank you, Minister. Senator, you have a minute to respond. Thank you very much, Minister. Minister, before the HSE was hit, two years before the HSE was hit, the NHS in the UK was taken down and nothing was done in this country to check our systems to make sure that we would be robust enough in the event of an attack. The document that was given to you by the Department today reads well. It reads as well as the strategy document. But I am afraid if the Department go back and look at the last meeting we had with people in the cyber industry, see what they have to say. They condemn everything about our cyber security. So I am asking you to bring back to the Taoiseach and to the Government, we need to move cyber into either the Taoiseach's Department, Defence or Justice, where it will get the proper support. And we need to do it urgently and we need to engage with the industry and listen to what they have to say. They are the experts out there fighting crime every single day of the week. The cost to this economy runs to the billions in cybercrime. It is now more profitable than the drugs industry. And that is rather frightening. Thank you. Thanks, Senator. And the final minute goes to Minister Burke. Thank you, Cahirlock. And Senator Crockwell, as I said, has been raising this issue and you are making a very valid point. So I will raise them with the Minister and indeed do an oath to the Taoiseach on foot of the commencement matter. It is not an area I have great expertise in myself, as you can appreciate. So I will bring the content over to you and especially some of what was stated in the reply in terms of the interactions with industry as well. Thank you, Cahirlock. Thank you.