Senator Gerard Craughwell- speech from 28 Jun 2022

Minister, I rise this evening to speak to you as probably one of your best fans when it comes to further education. I came through the further education system myself and the doors it opened for me and my colleagues. Indeed some of my colleagues who went through Limerick Senior College back in the early 1990s went on to become chief executives of some of the largest corporations in the world. the world and finished up studying in places like MIT, Harvard University and Princeton. All of them would not have gotten a place in a higher education institute as a result of their Leaving Cert results. So further education 100% behind you. Now today I'm going to ask you to pause. We're moving a little bit too fast here. I know you said there was consultation consultation that took place a year ago, everything has moved on in the last 12 months. Two years ago it has moved on even further, particularly in the area of Trinity College. Right now we're in a very, very delicate situation in Northern Ireland. We have Boris Johnson and his government at the moment ramming through legislation on the protocol. And that has been hailed by one side of the community in Northern Ireland as the motherland defending the rights of the citizen in Northern Ireland. On the other side of that community it has been hailed as government interfering or reneging on a deal that they already did. We rightly have pointed out that the legislation that is passing through the House of Commons at the moment is unnecessary, is unwise and is probably in breach of international law. In this bill, particularly in relation to Trinity, we are handing one side of the community a stick to beat us with, in so far as we're taking away the autonomy of Trinity College Dublin. I recall back in the days when I was president of the TUI, we were moving towards the technological universities and at that time I could see the HE8 casting their eye over at the established NUI's Trinity College, DCU University of Limerick and thinking, yes, we need to get our hands on that lot as well. Just look at what they have achieved on their own without government interference. These colleges are recognised particularly in the area of Trinity College and UCD, NUIG in Galway, UCC in Cork, Maynooth. They are recognised all over the world as institutions of excellence. Now, two words were used by my colleagues this afternoon. One was control and the other one was competition. Yes, I think competition is healthy. I think that it drives innovation within universities and the freedom and the flexibility to move when various things happen within the economy, the world economy. That's what it's all about and successful universities are able to react immediately. The control should come from the local governing body, not from central government. There is too much of a drive to drag everything into a central organisation which controls every last move they make. I wonder how quickly they would be able to react if they are being controlled at every single level. Are we going to kill innovation? Are we going to kill the ability of our universities to raise money either through the corporate sector or through attracting students to study in Ireland? I think it's fantastic that we have international students coming here and I think that the flexibility our third level institutions have had over the years to attract foreign students is commendable. Look at Finland. Universities in Finland are independent. They are funded to the tune of 64% by the state. They don't need a higher education authority over, over, over hanging over their shoulder. My own university, London School of Economics, is an independent university. It doesn't have anybody looking over its shoulder. I'm just a little concerned. I have no difficulty with you legislating for the technological universities which are a new entity in this country and which have yet to prove themselves. But I do have some difficulty with you stepping into the area that you are stepping into with the NUIs and with Trinity College. I also would include there DCU and Limerick University, both of which are extremely innovative and would match any of the NUIs and Trinity College in my view. So I'm just a little concerned and I'm hearing today from various people who are involved in universities around the country that they're going to meet next week to discuss this bill. And if they're telling me that then there's something terribly wrong here because if there's been as much consultation as I've been told there is, I've been told that they're meeting next week. So if that's the case, I think we need to step back and give them an opportunity. Anyway, as my colleagues have said, in five minutes there's not a whole lot you can say in here. Even in eight minutes there's not. And as you found yourself, what did you have, 15 minutes? You didn't get it all finished either. So look, if you're not willing to pause it, we're going to have to bring forward amendments. And I sincerely hope that we don't go down the silly route of guilleting the bill at some stage before the end of the session. We can always come back to it in September. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.