Senator Gerard Craughwell- speech from 7 Dec 2022

Ministers, you're welcome. Minister Ryan, can I ask you, is your department answerable to the Oireachtas? Yes. Then, Minister, perhaps you'd explain to me why they won't come to this committee. You're here, but your officials will not come. I'm surrounded by officials. In what context? In what context? In the context of search and rescue. It's not quite on the agenda. It is part of policy for the aviation industry in this country. We'll allow you some latitude, but I'll tread carefully. I appreciate that. Do you believe that this committee has the right of oversight of what's going on with respect to the tendering process? Yes, but this committee does not have the right to interfere or to influence an ongoing tendering process. Be very careful now, Minister. This committee has never interfered. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying it has. Well, I'd ask you to, if members have to be careful, I'd equally say, Minister, we've already had correspondence on this. We've made it clearly evident to your department that we have never interfered as a committee. I'm very glad. And I'd like you to clarify on that point. I'm not saying it did, but what I said, Chair, is that that's not where we should go. I never went there, Minister. I would ask you to respect that particular point. I absolutely respect that. But I do believe in the middle of a highly sensitive, highly important procurement process, where we do have to be sensitive to the commercial sensitivities in that, I think our Secretary-General, if that's what you're referring to in his correspondence with this committee has been absolutely correct in the approach he's taken. Well, let me ask you something. You said to me in a letter, both of you signed a letter on the 4th of August 2022, and you say, as ministers, we are somewhat removed from the day-to-day execution of the process. Accordingly, we have engaged with our officials to understand and reply to the issues that you have raised. If you can't have hands-on, then surely this committee should have hands-on oversight of what's going on. That is covered under the very directive that your Secretary-General quoted when he used the paragraph 17 as a reason why he shouldn't attend. If he went on and read paragraph 85, he would have seen that the Oireachtas is obliged to oversee public procurement. Now, I am deeply concerned that we have a process going forward that is going to cost this country way more than it's costing the UK for a similar service. There is no oversight. There is nobody willing to explain to this committee how we have arrived at the position we're at. Why, for example, don't we buy the helicopters and keep them? We're paying for them anyway, you know? I don't accept, Chair, if I can, and I do think, Chair, we're straying very far away from the purpose of the... No, no, no. So I would ask at this point, Mr O'Leary. You make your point, but we need to move on. Okay. The other one that is of concern to me is we had Michael O'Leary here the other day, and Dublin Airport is about to upgrade its security scanning system to match that that's in Shannon and Cork, and we've seen the Shannon one, and it's truly wonderful. We're certainly in Shannon. Yes, it's really good. Mr O'Leary makes the point that if we do that on a piecemeal basis in Dublin, it's going to completely disrupt the security processing system in Dublin. So can you tell me what the plan is, particularly for Christmas? Thank you, Senator. So in relation to myself, I have been meeting with senior management in Dublin Airport. To be aware, Minister, we've been corresponding as well with the EA and Michael O'Leary's comments to our committee. Yes, so during that engagement, I've emphasised that the excessive delays and queuing times experienced by passengers earlier this summer cannot be repeated. So I'm getting, and the department as well are getting updates in relation to that, and really the evidence that I'm looking for is the safe movement of passengers through security so they can get their flights, particularly in the run-up to Christmas. So last weekend, Saturday and Sunday, 100 per cent of passengers cleared security in under 30 minutes. This morning, again, the department is continually in contact as well with the DAA, 100 per cent of passengers, again, cleared security in under 30 minutes. So that will be the measure with which we can look at the success of the movement of passengers. They've assured me that they are equipped, they have contingencies in place, they have a task force ready if needed, and as I say, I'm getting weekly updates in relation to that. I understand the importance, as we all do, to ensure that our passengers are getting through during busy times, so they are giving me assurances that that is all in hand, but as I say, I'm in regular contact to make sure that people can come into the country or leave over the Christmas period safely and that everything is well managed. In relation to Shannon Airport, I just want to go back on it. I'm not in the region, I live in Dublin, so I have no axe to grind regarding Shannon, other than the visits we made. Any positive comments on Shannon are always welcome. The visit we made showed something, and that was the gross underutilisation of what is a tremendous airport, and I'm wondering, people from your own constituency, Minister Nocturne and Galway, I mean, should we be trying to – there is a rail line now running to Limerick – should we be trying to find a better way to accommodate passengers travelling into Shannon, the proximity of Limerick City to Shannon, the proximity of Tipperary to Shannon, Kerry to Shannon? As I was driving away the day we visited there, I couldn't but start to look in the rear view mirror and think somewhere along the line we have lost a great opportunity for the people of the midwest. I would wonder, are there plans there to start putting more regular shuttle buses in and attract more people? If the people go there, the airlines will come. Mr Nocturne? Yes, no, agreed. I regularly use Shannon airport myself, and it is an absolutely fantastic service, and the staff and everyone does incredible work. Can I just say in relation to Shannon, their passenger numbers have increased significantly this past year. They have the transatlantic flights, they have extra connectivity through Ryanair, and they have really grown from strength to strength, and it shows the work that they have done, and a lot of that was on foot of coming out of COVID-19, but using the exchequer funding that we gave to the airports to do what they do best, so it wasn't so much handouts funding for the sake of funding, this was Shannon Group showing that they were able to negotiate with airlines, win that extra connectivity. What we want to do, and what I want to do, as part of this refers back to your question, as part of the midterm review of the regional airports programme, to reach out to tourism, to the local stakeholders, the chambers of commerce who contact me and yourselves regularly in relation to doing more to drive traffic into the regions, not just Shannon, by the way with Knock and Donegal and Kerry. That is why I think this public consultation is really important that we get good constructive feedback in relation to how can we do that, and business as well. Minister Ryan talked about sustainable aviation fuels in the midwest region. There is huge potential there from a business point of view. I have been hit by the chairman here, Minister. I am going to jump in finally. I just want to put on the record here on this committee. My thanks to Minister Naughton. They mentioned the air navigation and transport bill, which had a difficult passage through this, and I want to thank her for her willingness to listen and her willingness to cooperate with us. We have a bill in place now, and hopefully we will see it inactive and up and running very quickly. I want to compliment you for that and thank you for your perseverance. NEW SPEAKER 1 A bit of turbulence, no doubt. NEW SPEAKER 1 A little turbulence. I'm afraid, Chair, I have to go to another committee now. NEW SPEAKER 1 Thank you. NEW SPEAKER 1