Tom Clonan Demands Clinical Risk Answers on Children's Move

Thank you very much and good morning. I just want to echo Deputy Cullinan in just remembering Chloe Maher, a 23-year-old woman from Coolock who died for lack of timely surgical intervention in relation to scoliosis. This is a recurring theme. I think there were sub-optimal outcomes for Harvey Sherratt as well. There are other people in that situation, I'm aware of it. For the record, it is possible to comment on individual cases. This is a rhetorical device that is regularly used by the HSE and others to avoid confronting issues. If families revoke their anonymity and come forward to tell their stories of crisis, it is precisely so that their cases can be discussed and we can learn from them. Otherwise, we would have never heard of Vicky Phelan and so on and so forth. I just wanted to put that on the record. A very quick question. In terms of role mapping, which is great, wonderful, has a clinical risk assessment been carried out for the movement of children to the new hospital? Has that clinical risk assessment been carried out? We have a whole programme in relation to the day of the moves itself. We have one of our paediatric intensivists, there is a risk assessment tool they can use called stop. Yes, there is a clinical assessment. By ramping down elective activity, it does mean that the sickest children will be left in hospital. I'm delighted to hear there is a clinical risk assessment. That covers the migration of all the children and adolescents from Crumlin, from Temple Street, from Tallaght. To the NCHI. One of the largest migrations of patients. You are using an app called stop. No, it is not an app, it is an assessment tool. Who is responsible for the clinical risk assessment? There is an actual migration team. One of the workstreams within the master schedule for opening the children's hospital is a migration workstream. That migration workstream has already done. Migration I understand, but my question is about clinical risk assessment. Who is the clinical lead on that? It will be one of the paediatric intensivists. Sorry, I didn't catch the name. What is the name, please? Cathy Gibbon. She is the director for IPAS, the Irish paediatric transport system. Is she a medical doctor? Yes, she is. She is going to hold responsibility for the clinical oversight of the risk assessment. Along with David Coughlin, who is a medical transformation director as well. There will be a team working together. That is all I needed to know. Thank you very much. I am relieved to hear that there is a clinical risk assessment taking place. I don't mean to sound rude or brusque, it is just that we have very little time. I welcome that this is Ireland's first digital hospital. That is great news. Who is the chief information officer at CHI? Professor Neil O'Hare. Is he also a full professor of health informatics at UCD? He is a part-time. Is he the full professor, because that is what he has on his LinkedIn profile? From a time commitment, it is one day a week. It is a simple question, yes or no, is he the full professor of health informatics at UCD? From the term of full professor versus associate professor versus adjunct professor, he is a full professor. Is he in receipt of two public service salaries simultaneously whilst carrying out this role? No. I think, number one, we don't usually discuss individuals from their own confidentiality, but we are compliant with public pay scales. Do you think it is consistent with this migration to have a person, because I know as an academic that a full professor is a very onerous task, is it appropriate for a person to be holding that role and also overseeing the transformation of Ireland's first digital hospital at the same time? As I say, he works four days a week in CHI, for which his skill, and I suppose the fact that he is also involved in academia means that we are getting the most up-to-date research in relation to this type of hospital. What was the process by which he was recruited? Before my time, I would have to revert to you on that. Can you write to me and let me know what the process was? Absolutely. I have seen similar overlaps with HSE and university professors, and it is a mystery to me how they are recruited, how they are seconded or how they can be in receipt of two public pay scales. I also would have concerns about how you could possibly have meaningful oversight when you are carrying out two very onerous roles. The staff for this new digital system, where will they be located? A combination of within the hospital and adjacent, we have offices adjacent to the new hospital. The adjacent, where is that? It is 700 South Circular Road. So you are going to have the nerve centre of your digital systems on the South Circular Road and not in the hospital? I am talking about the staff, apologies. As you said, it is not a building, it is the people who provide the service. The service providers are going to be off-site? It is a seven-minute walk to the new hospital. But they are off-site? There is also a team on-site. I just wanted to know about the location. Can I ask you, is that consistent with best practice in other hospitals internationally? Because my information is that this is extraordinary, that this is unprecedented, to have your IT nerve centre and your people off-site. Do you want to answer that, Ethan? Yes, thank you. So we actually will have office locations on both in the National Children's Hospital. No, I am not asking you where they are. Again, I am sorry, just unconscious at the time. Is it normal for these key staff to be off-site? Yes. Is that the case in other hospitals? Yes. Can you give me an example of international best practice where that is the case? Yes, so in my role in Great Ormond Street, where we were implementing an electronic health record the team that were doing that were not in the core clinical area of the hospital, they were in an office co-located to the hospital, which is the equivalent of what we are suggesting. Co-located, so were they contiguous to the building? No. So they had to go outdoors to get access to the building? Correct. Okay. When you say co-located, how far from the hospital? I am assuming that is on the hospital campus? Great Ormond Street is in the city centre, so the hospital campus is across many city streets. So it would have been a couple of minute walk. So specifically you say co-located, specifically in relation to IT, is it next to the hospital? Sorry, repeat that question? Is it next to the hospital, co-located? In Great Ormond Street? Yes. It is on Great Ormond Street Street, which is on the other side of the road. Okay, so it is next to Orchard, so it is not far away. In relation to the EPIC system, was that subject to a tender process? Yes. And was it the most competitive tender? Yes. That is a yes or a no. So can you write to me and just confirm that that was the most competitive tender for the system? In relation to EPIC, the staff who are going to operate and implement that system, where do they get trained? Yes, so we have to stand up a significant team to keep that skill set in-house for both designing and implementing that service. And we recruited that team in 2023. We have 106 full-time equivalents in that team. And they would have undertaken specialist training in the US, as well as attending virtual training to provide them with that skill set to then be able to implement that system. And where are they located now, your 106 staff? They are located in one of the CHI offices in Rialto. In Rialto? Yes, Herberton. Right. And when we're up and running, will they still be in Rialto, or will they be in the hospital? So there is locations in both the NCHI and in the Herberton office, and in 700. So we can agree. So you're dispersed across three locations now? Correct. Rialto, said circular road, and the hospital. Yes, correct, which meets the needs. I'm sorry, please, for just the brusque. I had very limited time. And I want to thank you for your answers. Thank you very much. Thank you.