George Lawlor Urges Free Travel for Under-Nine on Commercial Buses

Thank you, Cairn Corlea. Minister, this issue in question pertains to the extension and the expanding of the underlying free travel scheme to include and involve commercial bus operators. It aims to build on the Department of Transport's expansion of the fare reduction scheme that has occurred in recent years. I say it's essential that it were to have equity, equality and fairness that this modest but impactful extension would include children under the age of nine travelling on commercial bus operators within the free travel scheme. It would also address a growing disparity between PSO and commercial services. It would ensure equitable access for children across the country and reinforce the national commitments to increasing public transport usage and reducing car dependencies. Those relying on the commercial bus operators often reside and of course live in rural or underserved areas of the country and these are excluded. And this creates a two-tier system that is inconsistent with the broader policy goals around transport equity and inclusion. The inclusion of the commercial bus operators would ensure fairness for all families regardless of the geography or service providers. Those children who reside in areas where public transport is not always available and we all know about those areas across the country it would support a broader model shift by fostering a culture of public transport use from an early age. Commercial bus operators are already integrated into the LEAP card infrastructure and currently participate in both the free travel and young adult card schemes. So there is no need for any additional technological investment or major operational overhauls that are required to implement this extension. The system is ready and the commercial operators are ready and willing and able to deliver. There was a report done by Jim Power in 2024 commissioned by the Coach Tourism and Transport Council and the report highlighted that unequal application of fair supports is creating an on-level playing field between public service operators and licensed commercial operators. Extending free travel to under nines on commercial bus operators is a practical step that would improve competitive fairness while directly benefiting thousands of families. There is also strong public support for it following the findings in a recent survey. The key figures and cost indicate that after adjusted fare levels and even factoring in occasional long distance trips the total cost for the entire country is unlikely to exceed 1 million euro annually. There are large swathes of this country that have a non-existent or very poor public transport service and they are dependent on private bus operators. To exclude children under nine who cannot avail of public transport and depend on private operators is just not fair. There is no equality. The inclusion of commercial operators in the under nine free travel scheme will deliver strong social value at minimal fiscal cost. It aligns directly with your department's objectives on equality and accessibility. So I'm respectfully asking that this move be taken by the department and by the Minister for Transport in an effort to introduce and maintain equality for those people who are right across the country who have no access to public transport. And yet we have commercial bus operators that are out there in the field trying to compete unfairly in this regard because if an under nine is travelling, they get used to travelling on public transport but also their families travel with them and that is a success story for everybody. So I urge the Minister to carry this out. I'd like to thank Deputy Lawler for raising this important topic and I'm replying on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Daryl O'Brien. At the outset, I would like to clarify that the Minister for Transport has responsibility for policy and overall funding in relation to public transport but neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services. The statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger transport services nationally rests with the National Transport Authority, the NTA. The NTA works with the public transport operators who deliver the services and have responsibility for day-to-day operational matters. The NTA also has the statutory responsibility for the regulation of fares charged to passengers in relation to public transport services provided under the public service obligation contracts. However, unlike the PSO services where the NTA sets, monitors and regulates fares services operated by the commercial bus operators fall outside of this remit. Fares on the commercial bus operators' services are determined independently by the operators themselves and are a purely commercial decision. That being said, I would like to assure the Deputy that the Government is committed to delivering an accessible, reliable and affordable public transport system for all of our citizens, including children, under the Programme for Government. Our commitments include the rollout of contactless payments, keeping fares affordable and examining the further expansion of free public transport for children. In recent years, the Government has introduced a range of fare initiatives aimed at improving the affordability and accessibility of public transport while also encouraging increased usage across all age groups. These measures include the 90-minute fare, the 20% fare discount on PSO services and the Young Adult Card. Notably, the Young Adult Card scheme has been broadened to include eligible services operated by commercial bus operators. Specifically, in Budget 2025, the Government approved the extension of free travel to children aged 5 to 8 years on state-subvented PSO services, with the application portal formally opening on the 3rd of September last. This targeted initiative is designed to encourage children to start using public transport from an early age. The Government's decision to expand this initiative did not include broadening this measure to the commercial bus operators. As is the case, with all such budgetary measures, any decision regarding potential future fare reductions are a matter for the Government and are considered within the context of the available fiscal parameters and the medium-term fiscal plan. Thank you, Mr. Lawner. Thank you, Mr. Minister. I appreciate that you are in here with a prepared script, not of your making, but from the Department. But I have to say, to say that the Minister, on an issue like this, is not involved in the day-to-day running, is a lame excuse in the context of what we're asking. Effectively, what's happening here is discriminatory. We're saying to children and their families who reside in an area where we have a public transport system that's available and readily available, that, yes, you can benefit from this. But we're saying to children who don't have that luxury, we're saying to children who live in largely rural areas, that, sadly, we're not going to extend it to the bus operator that you have access to. You know, we see Ministers, and it has to be acknowledged that some very good work has been done and very good initiatives have been introduced. You've just outlined in the area of five to eight, children at the age of five to eight. But Ministers arrive with great fanfare at these announcements, but then tell us that they're not involved in the day-to-day operation, that it's the NTA's issue. I mean, the notion that we would have one set of children being able to benefit for something in this country, and others are told, sorry, you make your own way, is a bit ludicrous in the context of equality and fairness. And I'm sure there's a case to be taken and won somewhere. But, you know, for the amount of money that's involved and the fiscal impact that this will have, but the return that we would get, I think it's ludicrous for a Minister to wash his hands of it and say, well, look, nothing to do with me. I'll announce any new initiatives and I'll take the pat on the back. But when it comes to actually making the decision, that's down to the NTA. So that's absolutely ridiculous. This is a very simple request, not going to break the bank in the context of the overall budgetary situation. So I'd urge the Minister to go to his colleague and say, listen, this is about fairness and equality for the under nine children who don't have access to public services. Thank you, Deputy Minister. Thanks. Furthermore, I'd just like to say that this year the National Transport Authority introduced a new distance-based zonal fare structure for the Greater Dublin Area. This move aims to make fares equitable, more consistent and easier to understand with significant reductions from many commuting from outer areas, aligning prices more closely with distance travelled. I would also like to acknowledge the vital role that the commercial bus operators play in the overall public transport network by providing essential connectivity, which complements those delivered under the public service obligation programme. Finally, I'd also again like to thank the Deputy. I'd like to assure the Deputy that the Government remains committed to making public transport as accessible and equitable as possible. The Minister for Transport has met and will continue to meet and listen to the representatives of the commercial operators. While fare initiatives have delivered clear benefits for passengers, they also carry financial implications emphasising the need to balance affordability with long-term sustainability of the public transport system. Any decision regarding fare initiatives will be a matter for a Government decision during the annual estimates process and I do think in conclusion that the equity point that you made is very, very valid and I will absolutely relay that and impress it upon the Minister and the Government. Thank you. Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Deputy. Thank you, Deputy.