Mattie McGrath Demands Accountability as NAMMA Winds Down

Minister, I want to ask today about the situation with the wind-up of NAMMA, which we know is going to happen in the next 10 days. I want to know who's going to assume responsibility for ongoing issues, irregularities and issues and court cases and proceedings. Who's going to take responsibility for those when NAMMA is wound up by December 31st, which is only 10 days away? And will you make a statement on the matter? Thank you. I don't understand. Thank you, Deputy McGrath. As the Deputy has noted, NAMMA is on track to substantively conclude its operational wind-down by the end of this year. NAMMA completed its final surplus payment of €450 million to the Exchequer as recently as yesterday, the 17th of December 2025. In total, NAMMA has now made contributions of €5.6 billion to the State. This contribution has included cash transfers, corporation tax payments, as well as significant assets transferred to the LDA earlier this year, comprising social housing and strategic lands with potential to deliver up to 4,500 new homes. The conclusion of IBRC's special liquidation and dissolution of NAMMA bill, when enacted, will finalise the phased and orderly wind-down of the agency. Priority drafting was approved on 2 July 2024 and is currently at an advanced stage. The experience of other workout vehicles internationally has shown that some residual activity, including litigation, would remain after NAMMA's core work has concluded. The need to ensure that such residual activity is properly managed has been a priority of the Government and officials throughout the drafting of the Bill. Therefore, the Bill will provide for a new unit to be established within the NTMA following NAMMA's dissolution to manage any remaining residual activity, including litigation, until ultimate completion. This resolution unit will report to NTMA's senior management and will operate within the NTMA's governance framework. The vesting of this residual activity in the NTMA will ensure that any active proceedings to which NAMMA was a party before its dissolution will continue to be managed effectively. As the Deputy will be aware, by virtue of sections 99 and 202 of the NAMMA Act 2009, NAMMA is legally precluded from disclosing confidential debtor information, including specific details relating to debtor, secured assets or related transactions. I wish to remind the Deputy that NAMMA was established as an independent commercial body and I have no role in its operations or decisions. In relation to the matters that were raised and the details supplied by the Deputy, I am informed by NAMMA that it is satisfied that it has at all times acted appropriately and in accordance with its statutory remit. Thank you. Mr. John Traher, Mr. John Traher, he was out of business and living in England and his tax number was used for a number of years with the knowledge of NAMMA, by people involved in NAMMA, abject crimes. What becomes of the cases when NAMMA ceases operations? Who will take responsibility for these investigations? And who will be held to account for any irregularities and wrongdoing? I will administer, as I said, a big statement on that. You've said that you're not responsible, but somebody has to be counted for what we've done here. It was an awful vista. We had Project Eagle in Belfast. We had, indeed, Project Jackdown, Conmill with Conmill Arms site. We have this case of Mr. John Traher and we have the case of Nolan Transport in ongoing cases in Wexford and the issues there as well. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thanks to Deputy McGrath for his follow-up question. So it's not a question of responsibility. I'm precluded, as is NAMMA, under Section 99, 202 of the NAMMA Act from disclosing confidential debt or information. Indeed, NAMMA is legally precluded from disclosing that information, including specific details relating to debt or secured assets or related transactions. And NAMMA remains an independent commercial body. These queries, though, that you've raised have been raised with NAMMA. And they've informed me that they're satisfied that at all times they've acted appropriately and in accordance with its statutory remit. And, of course, if you have any further information to the contrary or concerns, I'd encourage you to make it available to NAMMA or, indeed, any other agency that you feel is appropriate. In relation to Deputy Neville's point, I think it's an interesting question in terms of what learnings. I suppose one hopes we'd never find ourselves as a country in this position ever again. And that's why we have to continue to budget in such a manner. But it is expected now that NAMMA's lifetime contribution to the Exchequer has been 5.6 billion euro. And that's included cash, corporation, tax, significant assets. Sorry, I'll come back in a moment. Deputy McGrath. You've given the serious concerns of fraud and recent high-core proceedings about unusual ownership structures, such as a case involving two identically named companies, Dildare Limited, one registered offshore, which may indicate attempts to circumvent liabilities to NAMMA. And you're saying there that you don't have responsibility. But somebody has to have responsibility. When NAMMA's found out, you can't just fold it up and put it on a shelf and say, great job done. They did some good work, but there was obvious wrongdoing and fraud. In these cases, I've mentioned the NAMMA lands in Cork. And indeed, worse in Carmel Town, as I said, Carmel Arms Hotel, which I've raised here. And now the Carmel Park Hotel, where Mr. John Fryer, now you're saying that NAMMA are satisfied that they acted appropriately. How could they act appropriately when he's out of business? He's trading in Ireland, bankrupt, trading in England, and his tax number was continually used to put funds through here by other directors of the company. With knowledge of NAMMA, I've named these things here on the door. Thank you, John. You said that NAMMA are satisfied. Well, I'm not satisfied, and I won't stop at this. And we've gone to the Gardaí, and they don't seem to be interested either. So it's a funny situation. Well, look, I just have to be, and I say this respectfully, and I don't want to be overly argumentative in the final day of the job before Christmas. But, like, I think it's unfair to say the Gardaí aren't interested. The Gardaí in this country are taken very seriously. Any issues brought to their attention. And if you have an issue with the Gardaí, there's a structure there. But I just don't like those blanket statements. The Gardaí aren't interested in Amazon. It's a very serious thing to come to the floor of the Dáil, reference individual citizens of our state's tax details and numbers. I'm not sure that's in order. And then basically accuse people of fraud, including state agencies. Everyone has an entitlement to their good name. There are very robust procedures in place. If you believe any illegality that's being committed, you go to on Gardaí. Gardaí are always interested in all matters related to that. I'm satisfied, as Minister for Finance, that based on the information you provided to the Department of Finance, that was provided to NAMA, that NAMA have acted at all times appropriately and in accordance with its statutory remit. That's what I'm telling you. That's what I'm telling you here on the floor of the Dáil. But I've also said, and we want to reiterate, that any residual activity, including court cases, and I think your reference cases, and I don't know whether they're live or not, but any residual activity, responsibility for that, will transfer to the NTMA. So perhaps that's another route for which you to raise your query as well, Tiffany. Thank you.