Paul Murphy: Demands End to Legal Sub-Minimum Pay for Youth

One of the first protests I ever went on was to demand the introduction of a minimum wage. At that stage there was no minimum wage, bosses could pay what they liked. But that campaign won, and 25 years ago a national minimum wage was introduced. Scandalously the minimum wage included provision for legal discrimination against young workers. And that inequality continues to this day. Around 15,000 young people in this country are legally paid less than the minimum wage. We have a national minimum wage of $13.50 an hour. Less than the living wage, a wage which makes possible a minimum livable standard of living. And the road to that living wage is getting longer under this government. But bosses are allowed to pay 19-year-olds 10% less than that inadequate wage. 18-year-olds can get 20% less, and 17-year-olds and younger can be paid 30% below the minimum wage, an insulting $9.45 an hour. When they go to pay for groceries, they don't get 30% off the bill. If a 19-year-old is renting, they can't take 10% off the rent. They don't get a young person's discount on petrol. It is blatant discrimination for young workers doing the same work as their colleagues. In the Oireachtas Committee, employers group ISME claimed that they are in loco parentis over young workers, who may favour gratification before learning how to budget. Bosses are actually doing young workers a favour by underpaying them, otherwise they might waste the money on suites. ISME also revealed the real reason that they want to keep sub-minimum wages. They said if young workers get the full minimum wage, this will have a spillover impact on other workers' pay demands. In other words, it is about wage suppression for all workers. Two years ago, we and People Before Profit proposed a bill to do away with this legalised super-exploitation. It passed second stage, but with a timed amendment from the government to delay it by a year. The excuse for the delay was that the Low Pay Commission was due to report on these sub-minimum wage rates. Well, the Low Pay Commission did report last March, and it recommended that sub-minimum wages should be abolished. Were they then abolished? No. The can was kicked down the road again with an economic impact assessment. I asked the Minister for an update about the progress of this assessment. I got a PQ back on Tuesday, saying it won't be finished until June, but that regardless of that, the government has agreed to defer any decision on sub-minimum youth rates of the national minimum wage. I.e., you are going to continue with legalised super-exploitation of young people, even after the Dáil voted to end it, even after the Low Pay Commission recommended that it be done away with, before the economic impact assessment that you commissioned has even been completed. On May Day, on International Workers' Day, will you please reverse course on your anti-worker agenda? Will you commit to equal pay for young workers? Thank you very much, Deputy Murphy. I don't think anybody can credibly suggest that this government is anti-worker. In fact, there are many more workers in this country as a result of this government's efforts and successive government's efforts to create jobs in every town, every village, every city right across our island. And, indeed, to have workers, you need to have jobs. There are many, many more people in employment. Many of us remember days in this House were actually the biggest challenge being raised on leaders' questions and every other opportunity in this House was that people couldn't get a job in Ireland. Very high unemployment rates. And we've worked extremely hard to get to a much better place, to get to a place of effective full employment. And that's something we should never, ever, ever take for granted. It's something we can't be complacent about. And we have to work day in and day out to make sure that businesses remain viable. And that many of the businesses, I mean, I certainly thought, I don't know whether you're directly quoting people here, but language about sweeties and all that sort of stuff is just utterly offensive to young people in our country who work bloody hard and play a very good role in so many parts of our economy. But I also know that many of the businesses that they disproportionately work in, often part-time, often during college and the likes, are businesses that are really to the pin of their collar in relation to trying to keep the doors open. And I challenge you to call into a cafe in your own constituency, call into a hotel in your own constituency, call into a restaurant in your own constituency, and as I'm sure you do. And I'm sure you'll hear from them the challenges that they face in meeting the pay bill. I'm sure you'll see in cafes across the country, as I do, sometimes reduced opening hours. And one of the reasons when you talk to an employer, they'll cite is the fact of trying to keep down the cost. So one of the things this government is collectively doing, across parties, across the independence, with Minister Burke, is to look at the whole issue of how we can help businesses with the cost of doing business. And, of course, that's against a backdrop, not of wage suppression, which, again, you referenced, but simply isn't the case. It's against a backdrop of a minimum wage that's increasing year on year, that will increase again, no doubt, in the years ahead and in the year ahead. That has increased by 33% over the last five years. That is now the second highest minimum wage rate in Europe. And now back in a country, and I accept this wasn't always the way in recent years with very high inflation, but now back, thankfully, at a position where wage growth is exceeding inflation and exceeding it effectively. So, in other words, the extra money people are getting in terms of wages is now outstripping any increases in the cost of living as well. So it's wrong to say that Dáil voted for this. The Dáil allowed a timed amendment for a bill to progress at second stage. So to people who follow these things, that's not the same as saying that Dáil passed a law in relation to this. There's no suppression of a decision in relation to that. The Minister has outlined the process he's taking, but he's also outlined very honestly, as he should be, that he is also trying to get a balance right here. A balance right to make sure that young people across Ireland have access to employment, to make sure that the companies and the businesses that they're working in can keep their own doors open. And, of course, we'll continue to keep these things under review. And there's many ways we're helping young people with their own cost of living, with their education opportunities, with the reduction in college fees and the likes. And we want to obviously continue on that positive trajectory. Dr Morton. I don't think it's credible to suggest that this government is anything other than anti-worker. Look at your actions in just the past few weeks. The delay of a promised extension of sick leave. I remember debating the sick leave legislation here. I remember us saying the extension of time should be in the legislation, and the government saying, no, no, no, we don't need to write it in, but don't worry, we will extend it. Now, a government that is delaying the introduction of a promised living wage. And now a government that is standing over a situation of legalised super-exploitation of young people. You're saying it's okay for workers under 20 doing the same work as colleagues beside them to be paid less than the minimum wage. I have no problem going into cafes, restaurants, shops and my constituents saying, no, it's not okay to pay people less than the minimum wage. Surely the government should be in a position to do that. And I would say that the justification that you're giving for why you're going to continue with this super-exploitation of young people, and I ask how long is this delay going to be, is not legitimate. The Low Pay Commission looked at it and said it would not stand up, it does not amount to a legitimate aim, and would therefore not be legal under the EU Directive on Adequate Minimum Wages. That if you have exceptions, they need to be in pursuit of a legitimate aim, and that pursuance of cost savings for employers does not count as that, whereas that's clearly the agenda you're setting out. So it's not that anybody's breaching the minimum wage, it's that we have a tiered system of minimum wage in this country. You have different views on that, but people are following the minimum wage, it's just tiered and applies differently to different people at different age brackets, and that's the system that we have had in place. And after you go into that cafe owner, and after you say that to them, and outline your view, and then you walk off home and go back to doing your job as a TD, they're the one left having to pay the bill. They're the one left having to go, how am I going to keep the doors open? How am I going to continue? How am I going to continue? And we support young people in so many ways. There wasn't, and I've heard this, I found myself having to shout at the radio the other day about broken promises in relation to statutory sick pay. Read the Fine Gael Manifesto, we were very clear in the election in relation to five days of statutory sick pay. It's there in black and white. We made it clear to people there wasn't a statutory sick pay scheme in this country two years ago, there is now. There will be also enrollment in terms of pension provisions from next January, thanks to the work of this government. We are moving towards a living wage. We have the second highest minimum wage in Europe. It's risen by more than 33% over the last five years. We're reducing child care. We've taken measures in relation to hot school meals, school books, reducing college fees, and we've crucially done something really important, created jobs, providing people with employment right across the length and breadth of this country, and that should never be taken for granted. Thank you. Thank you.