Paul Murphy presses minister on US LNG emissions and FSRU

I asked you before if you are aware of the emissions impact that US LNG would have here estimated to be at least 33% worse than coal. You initially ignored the question and then waffled about it depending on various factors. I am asking you again more precisely what research has your department carried out, commissioned or consulted into the likely climate impact of US LNG imported into Ireland? We have had a good discussion already because we have been here since 23 minutes past 10 in relation to LNG. Thanks for your question. Well done. Okay. That is great. Hopefully working with colleagues in a constructive manner this morning I would expect. Look, thanks for the question. I know you have a certain view on this. I mentioned to colleagues earlier on that we could not ignore the advice that we have in relation to our own energy security and the FSRU is absolutely needed. I am going to be publishing the SEPA analysis in the coming weeks. I have offered to Deputy Daley, Deputy Whitmore, Deputy Heenan and anyone else who is interested in this who wants to look at the independent analysis around this. I will be publishing it and I have offered a briefing as well for members. We are committed to our climate targets. I want to be very clear on that too. But also within our climate action plan is energy stability and security. So the decision on the FSRU is absolutely consistent with our climate action plan and absolutely consistent by the way with our EU obligations. So our commitment to Ireland's electricity generation from renewable sources is absolutely firm. And we want to accelerate the delivery of that. And it is through delivery on this commitment that a secure and sustainable energy future will be delivered. And I recently received Government approval, as you know, for the State-led, State-owned, State-managed Strategic Gas Emergency Reserve. And that delivery of a temporary gas reserve is critical to our energy security as we continue to transition to indigenous, clean, renewable energy. Crucially, the Strategic Gas Emergency Reserve will also ensure compliance with EU standards and regulation. And that emergency reserve will form part of the FSRU to be owned by the State through our system operator, Gas Network Ireland, a very similar approach indeed to the National Oil Reserve's agency. In identifying this as the optimal approach, my Department has built upon an extensive review of security of Ireland's gas and electricity systems, which was approved by Government in the Energy Security in Ireland 2030 plan in November 2023. That was published. I am sure, Deputy, that is available to you as well. This plan includes a range of external reviews and analysis, which considered all potential options, and all potential options were considered, and impacts from a security and sustainability perspective. The Energy Security Package set out Ireland's ambition to transform our energy system and support our climate objectives. The plan includes 28 actions under the pillars of sustainability, affordability, and security. And under Action 17 of that plan, GNI was tasked with reviewing and recommending the optimal approach. The extensive body of work that culminated in the publication of the Energy Security Package has been complemented by the GNI report. A number of emergency measures, sorry, excuse me, emergency exercises were actually carried out, and updated projections regarding the compliance with the EU N1 infrastructure standard, taking into account the most up-to-date data. The Strategic Gas Emergency Reserve is a transitional measure that supports a secure transition of our energy system, and the policy decision taken by Government ensures that the risk of stranded fossil fuel assets is reduced. The Reserve will be used for emergency only, and does not support increased gas demand. The Strategic Gas Reserve is not intended for commercial use. The liquefied natural gas will be held in reserve for use in the event of a significant disruption to gas supplies, and will be divested when no longer required to secure our energy systems. The policy decision ensures the risk of stranded fossil fuel assets is reduced. The Reserve will be used for emergency use, as I said. The source of the LNG supply for Reserve has yet to be determined. The operation of the Strategic Gas Emergency Reserve will be underpinned by policy and legislation that my Department is progressing as a matter of priority. I just want to inform the House that question 8 and 25 are grouped, so there is no confusion. Yes. You have a very simple question in front of you, for the benefit of anyone watching outside. You have this in advance. Your civil servants write an answer. It is asking whether the Minister has carried out and the Department commissioned or consulted any research into the likely climate impact of US LNG imported into Ireland. You did not answer that question at all. I can only assume that therefore the answer is no. You are planning to import a lot of US LNG fracked gas into Ireland without even considering the climate impact. There is a peer-reviewed paper by Professor Robert Haworth which makes the case, very convincingly, that it is at least 33% worse than coal. The reason for that is because it is methane rather than carbon dioxide that make up the majority of LNG emissions. Methane is 80 times more damaging to the climate over a 20-year period, the crucial timeframe for avoiding catastrophic climate collapse. Minister? Deputy, just to say, you have a bit of a fixation on this as well. Yes, you do. But the reality of it is I cannot ignore the risks that the State has in relation to our energy supply. I think it would be a dereliction of my duty as Minister on behalf of our citizens if I ignored the independent advice that I have in relation to the risks to the society, this economy and our country should there be a disruption. to our gas supply. I have said this earlier on and I appreciate you at the business committee. I have said this to colleagues that the legal advice that was received by my predecessor in this regard was very clear that you could not make a distinction between the type of gas that would be imported through LNG. No one is saying, by the way, this is US imported gas. You are saying that. That hasn't even been determined. The procurement. No, but it hasn't. It suits your narrative that you go out and start telling people that we're buying frack gas from the United States. That's not the question at all. But you see, it suits your narrative that you would be able to, again, stoke up anger in this regard. We're doing pretty well as a country in relation to our transition to green energy. On an average day about 33% of our energy is generated through renewables and we need to do a lot better and we're going to accelerate that. And that means things like the Planning and Development Act that we passed last year to help us actually accelerate the delivery of renewables. An act, by the way, that you opposed. I think you also opposed the Marine Planning Act as well, which was incredible that we didn't have a planning architecture for our maritime area. And to try to streamline that, create MARA, the establishment of the Marine Area Regulatory Authority. Again, you and others in the opposition actually, for all I can't understand the reasons as you would have, opposed it. I brought the bill forward. But on the one hand, some deputies opposite. Some deputies opposite say that we want a Greens transition. We want to, you know, move towards renewables. We're doing that. But then when you bring forward any legislation that actually assists in doing that, just because government bring forward the legislation, you oppose it. Thank you. Deputy. Minister, yes, I have a fixation on climate change. No, you don't. Climate change is going to destroy the lives of our children. You're twisting what I said again. It's going to make the earth effectively, like, largely uninhabitable for all but the richest. And that's the trajectory we're on. I have a fixation on climate change, absolutely. You should have a fixation on climate change, Minister. You're twisting it now. That's not what I said. Well, what do I have a fixation on? Carry on. What do I have a fixation on? If it wasn't climate change, what do I have a fixation on? You read the record and I'll come back in on supplementary. Read the record. I did not say that. I have a fixation on climate change. And yes, I also have a fixation on fossil fuels. Yes, I do. Because fossil fuels are what is driving the vast majority of climate change. And you're proposing, as the Minister for the Environment, the Minister for Climate Action, to import the dirtiest fossil fuel possible. That's what you're proposing. You're saying now, oh, don't worry. Well, you're not saying it's not going to be US frat gas, because you're correctly saying we can't draw a distinction, which the last government tried to mislead people about saying that we could have LNG and don't worry, it won't be frat gas. You're admitting that it could well be frat gas, but you're not able to tell me that it's not going to be US frat gas. I ask you to say on the record, this will not be US frat gas. You know, of course, it's going to be US frat gas. What else is it going to be? But, incredibly, you are telling me, by just not answering the question, you have not conducted any studies in relation to this. I mean, the Howarth paper was a key factor in the Biden administration's decision to bring in a moratorium on new US LNG export facilities in January 2024. That was reversed by Trump, who is a climate denier. So, in changing the policy here to allow US frat gas imports, the government is aligning itself with Trump and climate denial. You need to deal with the reality of the science of what the impact of frat gas is. This is the dirtiest fossil fuel possible, and you haven't commissioned any research, any evidence to suggest that's not the case, and you think it's fine. And we're going to run through this five or six times a year in our so-called strategic reserve that is going to displace even other gas as the dirtiest fossil fuel. No, it's not. And what I accused you of being fixated with LNG and with a floating strategic gas reserve that we actually need, it's been very clearly set out that the fact that we do not have a strategic gas reserve is a risk to our society, to our country, and to our energy stability. No one, and I did not mention climate in my response to you at the start, or accuse you of being fixated with climate change. I am. I'm the minister responsible for climate. I'm the minister responsible for ensuring we increase our renewables, that we unlock the potential that we have around our coast for the delivery of offshore renewables. And I just stated for the purpose of those who are watching in, your own track record on climate. You've never, you didn't support the Climate Act. You don't, you don't, you don't support the carbon tax. You don't support any of the measures that have been, you don't, you don't, you don't support, you don't support any of the measures that we brought forward, such as the Marine Planning Act, the Planning Act, anything like that. Because everything from your side, everything from your perspective, everything from your side is purely opposition for opposition's sake. We have a very serious crisis globally in relation to our climate. And we are all aware of that, and we should be working together in relation to accelerating the delivery of renewables. Peak gas demand will not start to decrease, or gas demand will not start to decrease until about 2035. It will be a transitionary fuel. As I said to deputies earlier on, on earlier questions, we now, if you look where we've come from, there's no peat in our energy system. From June, there'll be no coal in our energy system. That we're accelerating the delivery of onshore renewables too. And we want to see more wind, and yes, more solar onshore, and more renewables offshore, substantially more. And we have a real opportunity over the coming years, to the end of this decade, to make a significant step change in that regard. And we're going to be investing very heavily in our grid, through Price Review 6 as well, which will be coming to government very shortly. And the most substantial investment in our electricity grid in decades, if ever actually, to support bringing onshore the offshore renewables that we will develop over the coming few years. Thank you, Minister.