Paul Murphy confronts minister over student housing protections

I know in your statement you say that the lack of affordable accommodation is a big barrier for students attending tertiary education. And obviously that's correct. But you're part of the government that yesterday signed off on a plan that is going to make that crisis for students a lot worse. Students are arguably the group that is hit hardest. So students who are in rental accommodation will effectively not have any rental protection whatsoever. They won't be covered by 2%. They won't be covered by CPI because the vast majority of students in private rented accommodation change tenancies very regularly every year. And therefore every time they go back and rent again, their rent will be recessed to market rate. So there's no rent protection for them. And then when asked about it, you say that you'll be meeting with Minister Brown to thrash out how this will work. And you said you'll make sure it works. I don't understand. You're there at the Cabinet. Student accommodation is one of the biggest issues in higher education. How have you not already thought this through? Students an afterthought to this government? Are you saying that the rules won't apply as they've been announced yesterday? Are you saying that there will be some extra protection for students in private rented accommodation? I'd make the point is more students in private rented accommodation than there are in purpose-built student accommodation. Why have you signed off on a decision that's going to deepen the accommodation crisis for students? Well, there's a degree of polemic there, which you're entitled to, Deputy. You have a political view. I have a political view. They rarely coincide. Although I hope we both support the investment in research and innovation and education at a broader level. But I'm not the Minister of Housing. I work with my own part of the government. We have a new proposal, which was introduced yesterday, which is to come into effect next March. There's a lot of water under the bridge between now and next March. So I would sit down with my colleague, Minister Brown. We would delve into, and I've already spoken to Minister Brown numerous times about student accommodation. And we would delve into the detail around how it would affect the student accommodation sector. So let me explain to you. Sorry, through the chair. Sorry, I don't know. I wasn't actually finished. No, it's my time. Okay. So let me explain to you how it'll work and you tell me if I'm wrong. You can explain how you think it'll work. Yes, and you can tell me. You're a government minister. You can tell me if it's wrong. There will be no rental protection for students who are in private rented accommodation every time they change tenancy. So let's say I'm from Castlebar, going to college in Dublin. I rent from September until June or July. I come back next September. I don't get any rental protection. Isn't that accurate? My rent can be reset to the market rate. Well, I'm not going to get into, Deputy, a binary question with you, yes or no answers because this is a plan which was introduced yesterday at high level of which the details will be formulated in conjunction with other ministers over the next number of months. I don't think I can put any more plenty than that. Okay, so you're saying the press statement issued by the Department of Housing yesterday was inaccurate. This isn't the user's question. This is a committee exchange on higher education. Yes. Accommodation is a part, but it's not appropriate in my view to have a robust engagement on housing initiative that was launched yesterday by a different minister. You say that the lack of affordable accommodation is a big barrier for students attending tertiary accommodation. Yes, of course. And that's a priority for you. Yes. And yet, you don't know how this new scheme is going to work. We have a new scheme introduced yesterday. Yes. You signed off on it. Introduced, sorry? You signed off on it. You agreed to it, presumably. Yes. Yes, broad brush. Collective responsibility, yes. Of course. Which will come into effect next March. Yes. And we will work out the detail for every sector, and from my perspective, for the student accommodation sector, between now and March, and hopefully a lot sooner. Okay. Can you tell students now that if they're in private rented accommodation, they are going to be covered by rental protection? They're not going to face market increases every time they have a new tenancy? I think it would be extremely unhelpful and unwise of me to speculate about the future outworkings of a plan that is yet to be thrashed out in detail for my particular sector. Would you agree, then, that when this legislation is being put together, that students need to be protected, that they can't be subject to market resets every time they return to college, three or four times in the course of going to college? Would you agree with that from your perspective as a minister for higher education? Are we going to do yes or no answers, only? You can answer. So, yes or no? Yes. Yes or no answers. Do you agree? I think that's unhelpful to get into that sort of binary debate. I thought you said we were doing yes or no answers. No, I asked you. Is that what you intended? Yes. Deputy. I just... You're coming before us. The day after, we have a major... We have a question on half 12, if you want to go on there. No, no, but I want to interrogate the minister for higher education, who has acknowledged that accommodation is the number one issue. When we spoke about the Priorities Risk Committee, we spoke about this. I'm sorry to chair. Certainly. The minister has answered you in several occasions in relation to the proposals that was announced yesterday that are not finalised, not completed, and he has noted in several occasions that there will be, you know, very duly trashed out on several different committees and particularly in the Department of Housing, and no doubt in the Dáil on several occasions until next March. So I think to be fair to the minister on fresh proposals announced yesterday on plans that are not going to be finalised or implemented until March, I do not think it's fair to interrogate the minister on plans that are not finalised just yet. Respectfully, I think your job as chair is not to defend the government or to protect... No, I'm not defending it, but I'm being fair to the minister who's been coming into our chamber. ...from questioning. The minister will not even answer whether it is his position as minister for higher education that students should be protected from hikes every time they come back above... But that's not what you've asked for, Deputy. I haven't asked that. That was the yes or no question you refused to answer. If you want to answer it now, and if you say... I'll ask it again. As the minister for higher education, do you agree that tenants should not... Sorry, that students who are in private rented accommodation should not be subject to rental resets every time they go to college and should be protected by some level of rent protection? So it would be unhelpful, premature, and unwise to get into a detailed binary set of commitments around legislation that has yet to be drafted around proposals that were introduced at broad, high level yesterday that are not due to kick in for almost a year. I think it would be unhelpful, and I think it would run the risk of misleading students and many other industry parties, primarily students, but also because we've got to talk to the minister responsible and get into the detail of this. But what I will say, Deputy, which I've said already, and as you've acknowledged in my opening statement as well, the provision of student accommodation and the provision of affordable, quality student accommodation that works for students, that's close to the pace of study, that's available at scale in an affordable fashion, is an absolute priority of mine. That's why I'm interested in four different issues to support that. The designs and design will be introduced in the coming weeks. The student accommodation strategy will be introduced by the end of the year, if not sooner. The Technological University Student Accommodation Fund is already in play, and we have a national survey undergoing with significant quantitative inputs in terms of understanding supply and demand needs in different parts of the country, because there are regional patterns in this, as well as supporting things like the digs sector and supporting other forms of accommodation. I'm acutely aware of the importance of accommodation available at scale and affordable way to students. So I will be making those views known to Minister Brown. I have already, we've discussed student accommodation as part of the wider housing strategy, and I look forward to engaging with him in the detail of that. And those are the points that I will be championing in my discussions. Thank you, Minister. Now, Deputy Mayor. Thank you.