Paul Murphy warns against 'super junior' expansion in first bill

Yeah, here we are, the first bill of this doll, the first bill of this government, and we're off to an extremely bad start, both procedurally and in terms of what the government is proposing. Procedurally, because we're guillotined, very short second stage debate, then straight into our amendments, all of which I think were ruled out of order, and a tiny amount of time for that, and then bang, voted all through this evening. In terms of content, because the priority first act of the government is to create an additional three new junior ministers and an extra super junior minister, so-called. The most number of ministers and junior ministers and super duper junior ministers ever, and the highest percentage ever. I mean, almost, not far off, one in two government TDs are going to be ministers or so-called ministers in one form or another. 38 out of 95 government TDs. Incredible. And it gives you a hint of what these negotiations between Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, and the Lowry Regional Group, and the Hilly Rays, was really about. Not so much about policy, because effectively they could just mash together the Fianna Fáil manifesto and the Fine Gael manifesto, leave any concrete targets out, and then the regional group basically would nod that through with a tweak here or there. But instead, the focus was clearly about how many snouts could be fit into the public trough. The government has tried, like, in a way impressively, the brass neck of it, to say, really, we need all these extra ministers because of the extra size of the population or the extra complexity of running things and so on. I mean, they don't believe it, the public doesn't believe it, nobody believes that is what is really going on here. I mean, the idea that it's linked to an increase in the size of the population, it just, it doesn't hold any water. And I actually, the other night, I went and looked up various countries around the world, what size governments they have. There's quite varying sizes, but there's not much correlation between the number of ministers and the population of a country. There are larger countries with fewer ministers. Denmark, for example, has a population of 6 million with 25 ministers total. There are other smaller countries that have more ministers. It doesn't relate to population size. But that's just a cover for the real reason, which is about the sharing of the spoils of power between a number of different parties and groupings. And that's revealed that, in effect, this is the first act, which includes extra allowances for the so-called super juniors. But the next act, which presumably will be done by ministerial order, the minister might clarify, is to push through extra expenses for the junior ministers. Because the idea is, so previously, up until this point, junior ministers had to make due on the supposedly very modest combined salary and expenses of 176,000 euros a year. That's more than four times average earnings. But then, certainly some of them were putting on the poor mouth, saying we're losing out, because as a result of getting that, they lose their access to the travel and accommodation allowance that TDs get, which is an abandoned system based on how far away from the Dáil people live. But for those who live furthest away, it's in excess of 35,000 euros. I read former Fine Gael chief whip, Paul Keogh, claiming that junior ministers were sleeping in hostels as a result. So there are 176,000 euros between salary and expenses, and yet somehow were unable to afford hotels and therefore need these extra tens of thousands of euros of additional set of expenses. I also see that this is an idea which supposedly has no parent. I saw Michael Healy Ray saying, no, no, this was nothing to do with him. Supposedly this idea emerged from nowhere in the negotiations, and didn't relate to the various people who were going to be the junior ministers saying, we want these extra expenses. The other very clear example of the sharing out of the spoils of power that this is really about is the increase in the number of so-called super juniors. What started out as one super junior to facilitate democratic left being in government in 1994 has ballooned now into a record four. How many will it ultimately end up in if you are not stopped in the courts? Their role in the secret deals between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael and the groups of independence is revealed by the fact that two out of the four of these so-called super juniors are from the regional group, with then Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael getting one each. Obviously, it won't be ultimately decided upon here, but I think there's a lot of evidence to suggest that these super juniors are a breach of the constitution. The constitution is clear, a maximum of 15 members of the government, it's clear that it should act collectively and confidentially, but the presence, the attendance of these so-called super junior ministers is clearly in breach of that. And I don't know if consciously or unconsciously, but former Taoiseach Leo Varadkar gave the game away about this when he wrote in the Sunday Times, I think three weeks ago at this stage, that these super junior ministers were used, quote, to get around the rule of 15, explaining that a cabinet, quote, they were treated as equals, had a full set of advisers and brought their own memos for decisions. They get the extra allowances, they attend, they participate in all cabinet decisions, they act as ministers, breaching the constitution for the sole purpose of spreading around the spoils of office. Another grand political stroke for which ordinary people pay for. He did go on to make the point that it's time to bite the bullet and amend the constitution to allow for the number of senior ministers to increase. Then that's fine. Then let's have that discussion. I mean, we're in favour of a very different sort of constitution, which puts people's rights to the fore, which wouldn't have secret discussions. And let's have a discussion in that context about how many ministers we have fine, but you cannot just get around the constitution by this invention of the concept of super juniors. If you want to change the constitution, if you want to change the rules, then fine. But you have to go to the people to do it. Because the people have the right to decide. Thank you. Deputy Deputy Secretary. You