Richard Boyd Barrett urges enforcement of film tax-credit labour rules

Minister Tornistad, 125 million a year, I think, or probably higher, in section 481 film tax support for the film producers of this country. You can add in another 20 or 30 million from Screen Ireland. A lot of money, billions over several decades. But are you enforcing, because I believe you're not, enforcing the quality employment and training condition, which is about guaranteeing decent quality employment and training for the people who work in the industry. In truth, the actors are not being looked after in terms of their royalties, being forced to sign out by a contract. Crew are not having their rights vindicated. You need to monitor and police this properly. Thanks David and Roy Bower for raising this issue. I know in fairness, this is an issue you've taken a keen interest in for a long period of time. We had some engagement on this finance bill in the report stage as well in this house from yourself and from Deputy Osnoddick. Section 481 TCA 1997 provides a 32% payable credit for eligible expenditure on film production in Ireland. The scheme is intended to act as a stimulus to the Indigenous film industry in the State, create quality employment opportunities and support the expression of Irish culture. The provision of quality employment does form part of the application process for the relief, as you rightly say, as applicant companies are required to sign an undertaking of compliance with all relevant employment legislation. Adjudication of adherence to employment legislation is not within my direct remit as Minister for Finance. Monitoring of compliance with employment rights legislation is primarily a matter for the Department of Enterprise through the Workplace Relations Commission. If there are any issues to be raised with regard to the application of employment law, they should be brought to that Department. In relation to copyright, which is also within the remit of the Department of Enterprise, my officials have directly engaged with relevant representative bodies to better understand issues relevant to the audiovisual sector. There are complex legal issues involved, but processes are underway to address them. Deputy Boyd-Barrett will be aware that an independent facilitator was retained by Screen Ireland in 2023 to meet with key stakeholders wherein copyright concerns were discussed and identified directly with industry. As a result of this process, stakeholders have agreed interim best practice industry guidelines while pursuing a path towards a collective bargaining agreement. This is a positive step. Several collective bargaining agreements have been reached in the industry in recent years, including for construction crew and shooting crew agreements. These agreements provide for improved rates of pay, standardised work practices, and for an industry pension scheme. This demonstrates the scope for positive engagement in the industry and the genuine willingness to reach compromises which are beneficial for both parties. Regarding terms and conditions for film workers, it is not my place as Minister to dictate to creative professionals what their stance on paying conditions should be. Rather, this is a decision for workers themselves and for their unions to seek agreement in negotiations with employer representatives. I also think, and this is just a point I do think is worth making, it is not appropriate for legal rights to be linked only to one set of circumstances regarding tax credits. I want everybody's legal rights to be enforced regardless of the tax credit. It is important to recognise that the laws that underpin both copyright and employment rights apply regardless of whether a company applies for section 481. Minister, your department gives out section 481. The idea that you're not responsible for policing the quality employment training is ridiculous, right? We need joined-up thinking because everybody's playing past the parcel. Department of Arts, Finance and Enterprise and nobody's responsible and therefore what happens is workers get blacklisted, they get overworked, they get stressed, they're not being treated properly, their rights are not being vindicated and the actors are forced to sign buy-out contracts and the writers and the screenwriters and so on which essentially force them to sign away their residuals. If anybody kicks up they get kicked out of the industry. That's the actuality of the industry. For example, do you know, does your department know that Screen Guilds Ireland, who are funded by Screen Ireland, did a survey of people in the film industry in the summer but they never published the outcome of it because initially very few people knew about it but when they found out 800 film workers painted a very, very unflattering picture of conditions in the film industry. I happen to have it in front of me. I'll read you excerpts if I get a chance but it was never actually published. It wasn't given to the union. There's workers recently won cases in the high court stage hands and Equity will tell you, despite what you're being told, that actually their fight against buy-out contracts is ongoing because producers are not actually responding seriously. I think Deputy Byrne actually kind of captures the point I'd make. Firstly, I do think this tax credit has been extraordinarily successful. Deputy Byrne is suggesting that it hasn't and it has created lots of employment, lots of investment, lots of an ecosystem. And yes, I happen to live and represent a county as do. You represent one, Deputy Byrne, which has benefited significantly from that, as of lots of parts, lots of parts of Ireland. I do think we have seen progress made in relation to workers' rights and the enforcement of employment law in relation to this. Indeed, we have seen and I referenced a number of collective bargaining agreements and we want to see more in relation to this. My job is to put in place a tax credit. People sign up and commit to adhering to certain things under the tax credit. I'm making the point that those are policed or enforced by effectively the Workplace Relations Commission primarily. There are a number of issues, as Deputy Byrne and I would imagine, we will be aware that are before the High Court, in relation to issues that arose from the Labour Court, as well as substantive issues. I also get asked often why won't we mandate the use of packed equity that's used in the UK. We've actually had a situation where that's been offered to Irish workers on a number of productions. They've turned it down because the Irish contracts have offered better terms. You see, you're getting more information from the producers. On the work, first of all, this is a survey which was responded by 800 workers. Have you seen it? Have you seen it? No, because Screen Ireland have seen it, but they haven't published it, because it paints a very unflattering picture. These are words of film workers. Producers' reluctance to give the crew their full needs. Night shoots and the rest of the day isn't paid properly. Tight schedules. Long hours. Being hired as a trainee when there are no leads or assistants. Overly long work day. Budget constraints. Ageism. Professional development and progression not happening. Grade progression. Stress and hours. Continuity of employment. Pay. Stress. It goes on and on, right? Suppressed effectively, okay? Because the people who took this survey don't want you to see the outcome or anybody to know about the outcome. Stagehands in the High Court because they're... and the High Court essentially finding in their favour that their rights under the Fixed-Term Workers Act are not being vindicated because of the DA structure, which is being a... DAC structure, which is being abused by film producers. So they can never... workers in the industry can never accumulate rights under Fixed-Term Workers legislation. And then the buyout contracts. Equity have made absolutely clear they want the Pact Equity Agreement. They want it. It's compliant with EU legislation. They've said this repeatedly and whoever's telling you they don't want it is not telling you the truth. The time is up to respond, please. Firstly, I'd very much welcome seeing, and I'm sure you will give me whatever you have there in terms of the survey. I'll also raise it through my department with the Department of Culture and with Screen Ireland because there's useful information there that does provide us with an insight into the industry. I'd like to see that. It's important to see it and it shouldn't be suppressed. I share that for you. I would... whoever's giving me the information, the information is coming from my department, just to be clear. And I am told that there have been times where on Irish productions the UK Pact Equity terms are used, but there have also been cases where actors have been offered terms equivalent to the UK Pact Equity and have refused them on the basis of previous Irish contracts, offering better terms, particularly on lower budget productions. I'm sharing that with you for the benefit of the discussion. But it is ultimately, and you know this and you're good at this, it is ultimately a matter for workers' representatives and for employer representatives to reach agreements. That's ultimately what we should all be trying. That is what we should be trying to foster here. But I take seriously the issue. I know this sector, as in, I know it through my own constituency. I know many people who work in the sector. I know the ecosystem that's benefited. I think it's a really positive part of the Irish economy and the Irish offering. I think many other countries would love to have what we have. But if there's areas there's a need for improvement, I'm very happy to look at that and engage further. Thank you.