Richard O'Donoghue Raises Widows' Pension Sick Pay Anomaly

T-Shok, today I want to talk to you about widows' pensions. And pensions for widows doesn't discriminate a bit. You could be in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, any age. But what is worrying for people, and I'm going to tell you one or two stories. I am a mother, I have three children, my husband died. We have a house, a mortgage. And I'm in receipt of the widow's pension, which she said, I'm very grateful. But if I go out sick, I cannot, even though I'm a PRSI and POA worker, I don't get sick pay. Because I'm in receipt of a widow's pension. I'm a father, I have two children. My wife passed away due to cancer. I have one child in secondary school, and I have one child in primary school. I worked all my life, and I continue to work. I am in receipt of the widow's pension. It doesn't cover the loss that I have of my partner, but it helps me and my family to try and survive. If I'm out of work tomorrow morning, I don't get a payment, such as my stamps, if I'm out long term, as because I'm in receipt of a widow's pension. Can you please rectify this, that if I'm working, and if I'm out, which is good, I receive the payment. If I am not working, all the different criteria from different employers only cover you up to X amount of sick days. Then some places would require you to go out on sick pay, but sick pay is based on your PRSI contributions, or your stamps. You cannot be in receipt of two government payments. This needs to be rectified for the people that are working, and also for the people that are working, and if they go out sick, that they cannot survive. As I say, they're very thankful of what they've got to help them survive. It doesn't replace their loved one, but it helps them to try and cater for their family. Can the government look at this on a legislation? Can they introduce a legislation that if I can be in receipt of it while I'm working, if I'm out sick, I should also be entitled to my PRSI contributions, which I work to pay for, and also be entitled to my widow's pension. This is what they're asking, to know, can this be sorted out to make sure that my family can survive. These are only some of the cases that have been brought to my attention. So please, Taoiseach, if you could look and answer that, please. Thank you, Deputy Taoiseach. First of all, I would thank you very much, Deputy Donohue, for raising this issue. I think you've made a number of fair points. When a widow loses her husband or a husband loses his wife, the costs of running a household don't go down. Very much similar costs, if not additional costs in some respects, depending on age and so on, in terms of looking after kids if you're going back out to work. So it creates enormous challenges. It's also a very lonely journey for quite a period of time. And I would say to you that I'll ask the Minister for Social Protection, particularly in the context of the next budget, if he could examine the points that you've raised, look at the various anomalies that potentially exist. Because, you know, the Social Protection Code is a broad system. It's many, many different payments. Some of the policies are interrelated. If you move in one area, there's a ripple effect across the entire social protection system. Although the status of the widow, I think, is one that's worth considering, has perhaps been apart from the breadth of social protection payments that people receive. Systems generally in departments are always worried about making exceptions of one particular category of person in receipt. But I think you have raised a number of important issues. And perhaps I'll ask the Minister to engage with you, because maybe you have some other examples, particularly on that sick pay argument, that certainly I will ask the Minister to pursue. And I'll certainly engage with you also and just see, in the context of the budget, are there sensible, practical things we can do to alleviate the pressure and pain that people go through in such circumstances? Thank you, Tisha. Thank you, Tisha, for your response. And I look forward to meeting the Minister on this. I'm under no illusion. There is all different criteria under different payments that the government have to look at under different circumstances. But when it comes to losing a loved one, and you're trying to survive, whether you have children or not, there is massive overheads trying to put up, even with inflation costs that are there at the moment, and the challenges that are there ahead of people. It's something that should be legislated for, that if we can help people that are in a situation like that, we do everything we can to help people in that situation. There are other criteria that are more complicated. But to me, if you're a person that's widowed, whether you're working or not working, and you've paid your contributions, your own peers, it should not matter. It should not interfere with your widow's pension if you're out sick. And that's why I'm trying to bridge that gap to make sure that a person that if they're out sick, they don't have the worry about it. They're now going to go further and further into death, which causes worries on the whole family. Thank you, Dr. Tisha. You've raised the issue. I mean, I could, how would I put it? I mean, there is a complexity to the social protection system, and if you move in one area, it can affect others. We're all familiar with, I think, meeting pensioners in particular or knocking on the door, and a pensioner would say to you, look, I lost my wife last year or whatever, and found it very difficult because essentially the same heating bills, sort of same running expenses, same rent maybe, or same mortgage. So their expenditure costs haven't gone down at all, but their income has been halved in many instances. So I will ask the minister to look at that, and we'll revert back to you. Thank you.