Victor Boyhan on Tobacco Bill: Warns of Illicit Trade, Retail Burden
Victor Boyhan spoke in the House on the Public Health Tobacco Amendment Bill 2024 and opposed parts of the proposal, arguing that higher age restrictions for 18 to 19-year-olds would push cigarette sales into illicit channels. He told the Minister the bill lacks pre-legislative scrutiny and clear enforcement details, and that retailers will be placed in a precarious position.
Opposition to the 18-19 age ban
Victor Boyhan argued that banning adults aged 18 to 19 from purchasing cigarettes would not prevent use but would instead drive this age group to seek easily available illegal cigarettes, worsening health risks and undermining the stated aims of the bill.
Retailer enforcement burden and real-world example
He described how retailers will face difficult encounters at the till, giving an example of young adults buying slabs of beer, nagins of vodka and a pack of cigarettes and creating confrontations if cigarettes must be refused. Boyhan warned this will damage customer-retailer relationships and place additional enforcement duties on shop staff.
Scale of illicit trade and fiscal impact
Referencing recent figures, he highlighted the proliferation of illegal cigarettes, noting a survey finding that 34% of cigarettes in circulation in Ireland are non-duty paid. He quoted this year's smuggled value at 89.5 million with an estimated Exchequer loss of 62 million and warned that smuggling fuels organised crime.
Concerns about scrutiny and enforcement detail
Boyhan repeatedly called for the Minister to reflect on the bill's lack of pre-legislative scrutiny and the absence of clear details on how test purchasing and enforcement of an increased age limit would be undertaken. He said retailers have not been given adequate consideration of potential adverse consequences to their sector.
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First, I want to welcome the Minister here to the House, and we're dealing here with the Public Health Tobacco Amendment Bill 2024. Now, Minister, you'll be aware I have two amendments, so I'm going to sort of, within my 10 minutes, touch on most of them, so I'm not going to elongate this process by repeating myself at the amendment stage, if that's trying to be helpful. You know what I mean? It's no point in getting up and saying the same thing twice. You've made up your mind. I am conscious that we're now at the end of the government processes, so I understand and you're very limited, even if you wanted to take in amendments, but I'm going to articulate a concern and a view. I've spoken to a number of the retailers and retail representative bodies, they're a very important part. We'd be very familiar with retailers, of course, through some of the nominating bodies here in the Shannon. We're advocates, of course, clearly for some of them, they don't nominate me, but the point is we live in an economy, we live in a society, we live in an environment, and we're not oblivious to what goes on around us. I don't believe in any state, and I think you touched on it. I believe in allowing adults be adults. I allow people making choices in health, in commerce, and every other aspect, once it's legal and once they're harming nobody else. That's the rule of thumb I apply to everything in my own personal life and in my political life and in my political dealings in here. And we can't have different versions of choice and different versions of freedoms for the citizens, adults. And, Minister, I point to a situation where one retailer said to me last night, you know, fellas can come in here and buy slabs of beer, nagins of vodka and whiskey, a whole load of other things, and have a great time, and up to now they're being able to ice cigarettes. But now, if this legislation goes through, you will impose on them that they will effectively be having to question and tease out with people. Well, clearly they have to identify people who are over the age in terms of alcohol consumption, and you were suggesting in your delivery of a speech here a few minutes ago, the difficulty of someone, a retailer not being able to differentiate someone who is a 17 or 18 or 19 year old. Well, look, they're legally bound to differentiate that, but now they're going to have to go. So you take the fellow that comes up like the man that came up to the shop last night, the 18 year old, and put a slab of beer, two nagins of vodka and a few other bits, and a pack of 20 cigarettes on the table. What does the retailer have to do? The retailer has to say, you have to put back the cigarettes, and your man says, well, take it all back. As a matter of fact, you can take the beer back to the shelf, you can go down the other shelf and take the groceries down, and you can take your cigarettes, and I can walk out. And I can do that 10 times a day, and I haven't created an offence. But I have frustrated and started to develop a bad relationship with my shopkeeper. Do we really want that? There are a load of things that you and I and everyone does that are not good for our health, but we do them. Just let's be realistic here. Do we really want a nanny state? Do we want our retailers having to question people all of the time for different aspects? So I think that's really important. So these are just a few points. Given the lack of the pre-legitative scrutiny of the bill, there has been little or no consideration of the impact of illicit trade and its potential adverse consequences for the retail sector. That's what the retail sector tells me, especially given the proliferation of illegal cigarettes this year. You know about the proliferation of illegal cigarettes. I know. We all know. According to a recent survey published earlier this year by the revenue commissioners, 34% of cigarettes in circulation in Ireland are non-duty paid. 34% are non-duty paid. We've got to live in a bit of reality here, Minister. So far this year, smuggled cigarettes, worth a value of 89.5 million, have been smuggled into Ireland and an estimated loss to the Exchequer of 62 million. It is clear that Ireland is awash with illegal cigarettes. So who's going to be smoking them? You know who's going to be smoking them. I know who's going to be smoking them. It's going to go all underground. I don't believe in all of that. Smuggling is generating significant profits for criminal organisations. You and I know that too, which in turn is used to fund other criminal activity and engage with people in criminal activity. The proposal to ban 18 to 20-year-olds, adults, as you said, they are not going to be a not children and we're not reviewing these people's children within the broader context which would have to do with other legislation. So the proposal to ban 18 to 19-year-old adults from purchasing, simply result in this age group instead purchasing easily available, and in that case, probably, smuggled cigarettes with further losses to the Exchequer and a continuous risk to their health, as you've made the point about the health risk. I would urge your Minister to look to be reflective on all of that because I think that's important. Again, if you look back at the retailers, I've expressed a concern also. I spoke to a retailer this morning on the phone who rang me conscious of what was going on here today. And he said they had genuine concerns that they would be faced with the prospect of young adults, they're not children, young adults, coming into their stores and being able to purchase slabs of beer, vodka, another array of things as well as lottery tickets. That's the reality of it. Drink isn't good for your health. You know that, you know that, I know that. We've seen no details on how the test purchasing for the purchase of enforcement or increased age limit is to be undertaken. We simply haven't seen that. Retailers feel that they are being put in a precarious position. And you could go on and on and on. Minister, I don't think it's a good idea. I don't think it's right at all. And I don't think we should be doing it. And I heard in the past when we talked about in this very house by senators in relation to penning off areas for the consumption of, for the retailing of alcohol, and I heard a different view then talked about the nanny state. So we have to be consistent with what we do. I know that with some interest, and you hadn't copies of your speech before circulated, but there was one available, and I had to look at it. On page 10, you say, we didn't read this into the record, by the way, but in your speech before us here today, prepared speech by you and your officials, you say that you have taken advice from the Attorney General on the best way to deal with the age increase. Can you share with us, what is that advice? I mean, I know it's the AG's advice, but there's no big secret in that. I mean, surely there's no big secret in that. But I think it would be helpful, given that it's in your statement here before the House today that wasn't circulated formally around this House. But I'd like to hear what the Attorney General had to say. So in conclusion, Minister, I don't want to go on. I've touched on the areas which very much reflect the two amendments, and I hope some way that you can address them and come on board and support them. Thank you. Thank you.
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