Brendan Smith urges review of pharmacists-era pension credits

Thank you very much. Minister, as you are aware, there's a cohort of people who have reached pension age or about to reach pension age and have been paying their insurance contributions towards a contributory pension. Now they find that due to the fact that their insurance record was broken while they were in receipt of pharmacists, that they are now only entitled to a reduced contributory pension. I believe that this is a small cohort of people and I'm very anxious that those people who had to go on pharmacists because of reduced farm income, income, that for the periods that they were in receipt of pharmacists, that they should be given due recognition with contributions credited to their insurance record to ensure that they are not all deprived of full contributory pension. Thank you, O'Kahirle. Thank you, Deputy. Minister. Thank you. And thank you, Deputy, for raising this matter. Currently, PRSI-credited contributions or credits are awarded to former employees only to cover gaps in social insurance where they are not in a position to pay PRSI contributions, for example, during periods of unemployment or illness. Self-employed workers do not qualify for credits as one social insurance payment per annum provides the full 52 contributions for that year. The pharmacy scheme was introduced in 1999 to provide income support for low-income farmers. It replaced the former smallholders unemployment assistance payment. In line with the then existing arrangements for unemployment assistance, including smallholders unemployment assistance and pre-retirement allowance, the non-welfare income of pharmacist recipients was exempt from the payment of Class S PRSI for self-employed workers. Recipients of pharmacists who had previously paid Class S social insurance contributions had the option of paying voluntary contributions to maintain their social insurance record, provided they satisfied the qualifying conditions to do so. Since 1 January 2007, the exemption from Class S PRSI has been removed and those self-employed persons receiving job seekers allowance or pharmacists are subject to Class S PRSI. As self-employed contributors on their self-employed income, provided their annual income is 5,000 or more. Any self-employed person, including farmers, with an annual income of less than 5,000 euros can pay voluntary contributions to maintain their social insurance record for pensions purposes, once qualified to do so. A person aged 66 or over with insufficient PRSI contributions to qualify for a full state pension contributory may claim a state pension non-contributory if they have an income need. The maximum weekly personal rate is 237 euros, which is over 95% of the maximum state pension contributory rate. While it is means tested, there are very significant disregards which are to the benefit of claimants, and a significant majority of such pensioners are paid at the full rate. I hope this clarifies the matter for the Deputy. Thank you, O'Khalig. I thank you, O'Khalig. Minister, as you quite rightly point out, the Farm Assist scheme was introduced in 1999, and Deputy Eamon O'Keefe, who are here, and myself and others, would have been very strong advocates of changing the then-small holders' farm assistance payment, because it was based on historical farm income. pharmacist was quite rightly introduced to take account of present income circumstances and as we know there can be a very sudden change in farm income circumstances maybe due to an outbreak of disease and a herd or sudden and drop in international prices for commodity prices and also weather related events as well that can impact very severely on farm incomes. Minister you mentioned about the change in the in the PRSI exemptions in 2007 I'm talking about the cohort of farmers between 99 and 2007 who had a break in their insurance contribution due to availing of pharmacists they did not know that the record was broken because people generally understood that if you went on to social welfare payment that your insurance contribution was maintained now I have spoken to accountants predominantly the small-scale accountants whom you would know yourself minister in our own two counties and they said that in many instances farmers came to them when they reach pension age and they were horrified to learn that their insurance record was broken and they had not an entitlement to a full pension I believe through my constituency work and in checking with other colleagues who deal with the small-scale farm farm holders that that there's only a small number of people and I believe that just they're being denied justice through not having the knowledge at the time or they were never informed by the Department of Social Welfare or Revenue Commissioners that they needed to pay a contribution themselves during those times that they were in receipt of pharmacists thank you Minister thank you Deputy Smith and just to say first of all that the pharmacist scheme is an absolutely essential scheme and there are farmers who who benefit from it and and they needed to put bread on the table and I'm absolutely committed to that scheme as well and you're talking about a particular cohort of farmers from 99 to 2007 and and I take the point you're making but obviously I'm fairly new into this job but I will be very happy to sit down with you Deputy and try and find some resolution as you say it's not a huge amount of people and I do absolutely agree with you that they didn't realize that they had to make these payments in fact I've had them myself in my office and the story is there they didn't actually have to pay any tax so they didn't you know maybe have an accountant help them put through these or send in these returns and make those contributions and I I do accept what you're saying so and and I I I think Deputy it'd be very useful that I I meet with you and we we'll have a look at this with my officials Deputy final word thank you I welcome the minister's approaching minister I'd be very glad with deputy even myself to sit down with you and go through the particular lacuna in this legislation if you want to call it that and I genuinely believe that that small cohort of people and this is a crunch time for them because they're coming to pension age those those people that cohort of people so I would very welcome your approach and hopefully we can to make progress on this issue and ensure that these people are not denied their maximum in pension contribution as we know they work very hard in many instances that had incomes a bit below the living standard over many years due to no fault of their own and and they have worked very hard over the years and only availed of state assistance when absolutely necessary and I have to say it many of them were shocked when they came to pension agent finding out the form to see that their insurance contribution records had been broken thank you okay thanks deputy now the question well yeah do you want a final final word okay thank you thank you deputy and I'd be happy to sit down with with yourself and deputy O'Keefe to to look at this matter to see can we find some resolution to those particular group of people as I say I'm new into the job and sometimes decisions made in one area can have unintended consequences in others but really I do think we do need to sit down and go through it and see can we find something so I'll arrange that meeting as soon as we can so thank you for raising this matter a deputy