Michael Fitzmaurice presses minister on CAP, eco-schemes and Bord Bia

Welcome in. You can take these questions down and answer them because I'm going to be as quick as I can. Ireland is going to have the head of the EU for six months from July to Christmas. Are you going to prioritise agriculture that you try and get the cap wrapped up in that six months? Because I think it has to be done by the beginning of 27. That's the first question. I see that on your document there, Minister, you have stated the consolidation of eco and agri schemes is what's being proposed. Have you started already with the eco schemes? From what I heard last night, there's going to be a big change coming for farmers this year to the eco schemes. Is that part of this that you're getting geared for? And does that mean that eco schemes and environmental schemes will be basically all one, that you won't be getting rewarded for putting 10% of your land to one side? That's the second question. There's 24% in the cap budget and I welcome what you've stated clearly there, that the lollipop that was being handed to Maloney and Mercosur is a new money. So basically it's not a new coming. The 24% that's been proposed of a cut, can the Member State, it is my understanding the Member State can fill the gap if the horse dealing is done, and we'll say it's 10, 12 or whatever, can the Member State put it in? And is there State aid rules to block that? I welcome that you're opposed to, say, farmers when they get the pension or whatever, that they're not being kicked out of it. Is that going to be compulsory by 2032? That's the question there. In the new cap, I see you want to have entitlements per hectare or per hectare. The suckler cow is, say, a pillar two. You have a programme for Government that states the cow will be €300. Is there going to be a pillar one, pillar two, or what's the set-up, and will that be honoured? And the last one I have to put in, in light of Mercosur and all the different headwinds, and I welcome the vote today, but part of the cap or part of your department, part of the budget is given to Board BIA. Board BIA have lost credibility today, and going forward under the cap, are they going to be getting money if people involved in it is bringing in meat from Brazil? Those are my questions. Well, I've asked about Board BIA, about involvement of people. Yeah, they will be looking for an opportunity to respond. Or they can, but we won't wait into it. They're coming in in two weeks' time, aren't they? Thanks very much, Deputy Fitzmaurice, for that and for being succinct as well. Yeah, exactly. No, just a couple of things there, clarifying. So, first of all, the presidency of the EU, yeah, that's a key point. Will it prioritise Ag? It absolutely will. And if you take Ireland's position, obviously look, when you're in the chair of any committee, as the chair here will know, you have to be an honest broker, and you can't be just talking about yourself all the time. You have to look at the broader things. So, in some ways, the relationships I'm building now and have been for the last year across Agri-Fish Council really matter. I was in Berlin last week at the Global Food Forum. I had nine different bilateral meetings with Ministers for Agriculture so that we can clearly understand that I'm telling them Ireland's priorities while they're telling me theirs for when I'm in the chair. But on a broader level, the multi-annual, the budget negotiations at the same time as the CAP, they're obviously interlinked, as I said. So, the role the Taoiseach has and the Tawnish has as Minister for Finance in those discussions are really important. And will Ireland put a priority on this as an overall government? Absolutely. We are a net contributor per head of capital, but the most money we get back for the exchequer in Ireland, so this matters to people in Dublin and Cork as much as it does in the rural areas, 75% of the money we get back from the EU is true to CAP. So, therefore, this is really important to our overall economy and to everybody that we do that. Consolidation, environmental and eco schemes, no, we haven't started that work yet. So, there is the general ebb and flow of how the EU audit schemes and how they operate. But you're changing eco already. I'm about to explain to you why you're saying there was a change in eco schemes that some farmers were written to, to flag to them that it was highlighted to us that hedgerows beside houses, in some cases the hedgerows are in gardens and hence not always eligible, and that some of them were eligible the last time. So, this was raised with us by the EU, and we are flagging that with farmers in advance of a new BIS going in. The vast majority of those farmers will have hedgerows that they haven't claimed for eco schemes and will be able to come in under that. Okay. This is the normal auditing of schemes. It's nothing new. Like CAP will be post 27, and there's nothing new coming in that one. I was very proud of the eco schemes, something that I was a big advocate of using space for nature. And when you look at farmers in Germany, because the eco schemes were so convoluted in how they were designed, farmers couldn't access them. That was their single farm payment. They needed to be able to get back access to it. Okay. The lollipop of the new money, as you said, they are not new money. Yeah, look, in terms of how we do that, like, again, money coming forward earlier is better. So, you could argue, they are not new money. Yeah, look, in terms of how we do that, like, again, money coming forward earlier is better. So, you could argue, depending on how it is done, it could increase our 80% in overall terms, and you could class it as higher than that, but it does depend on conditionality. There are rural targets, and how the rural targets are implemented depends on what flexibility you have in the end. So, on the one hand, it will look flexible, but we want to make sure the devil in the detail that it is. Can members fulfil it? Our members say can co-finance rural development, the old pillar two type measures? Yes. I feel there is a trap here. We are not going to fall into it yet. There will be a time for all of us from different political persuasions and you to hold us to account and say, how much is government putting in to support farmers and agriculture and farmers to come there? Ursula von der Leyen and everybody in Europe would love us to have that discussion today and let Europe off the hook. We are not done yet chasing more money for the overall European money for our agriculture sector, and I have no doubt, I have sharp elbows and I will make my voice heard at Cabinet when that comes to fight for my corner on that one, and for the agriculture sector. The retirement compulsory by 2032. So, the wording around that retirement element that it would be compulsory to take away, I presume you are referring to take away the single farm payment for somebody who gets a state pension, that I have said I am not in favour of. Right now in the regs that looks mandatory, so we will have to use political capital and we will have to work to try and not have the mandatory, so I have the flexibility to not do that. But the language around it is quite loose still, so again, there is a level of detail therein, but I can't be any clearer on what I would like to do on that. Won't have a single farm payment as such. Well, look, we still have to design this. I have talked before about simplification, and real simplification is actually less schemes. And if the money is less, well then we are just going to have to be very... Just touch on Board B, that's the lesson. No, you have Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 there. So I am just saying, yeah, Pillar 1 and Pillar 2, we would like, we would prefer not to be in the NRPP system, we would prefer to have Pillar 1 and Pillar 2, but that looks like that is not going to happen. There is an element of ring fencing within the NRPP structure that we will try and work around. So Board B are not funded out of Common Agricultural Policy money, they are funded directly in the National Exchequer, they are an exemplary organisation, they have been directly involved in the exponential growth of the value returned back to our farmers from the food and drink that is exported out of this country year on year. I presume we might as well call it out here though, you are referring to the media reports that have been in recent days. It matters for the Board, you know, the Chairman of the Board has been, has ably assisted in that remarkable performance of our year on year record growth of the value of our food and drink exports for our farmers. 2012 in this country the value of our exports were down €8-9 billion. They are now currently in the last most published figures at €19 billion and I expect when our CSO figures for all agri-food and drink exports comes out for 2025 very soon. I expect that to be in the region of a record €21 billion value for our farmers. If people think Board B, the chairperson and everybody that works in it, didn't play an integral role in promoting and marketing that food, well then I don't know what they think they are there for. And we have to be really honest with people here. So I absolutely understand the emotion of what was reported. I understand there is a meeting of the Board tomorrow and they will get to go through that and I saw a report on the matter and on proceedings tomorrow. I look forward to receiving that after the Board meeting. But I can't be any clearer that like we are not doing any of the farmers that you represent or I represent or any of us in this room that we want to have their back. The undermining of the Origin Green Quality Assurance scheme, our Board, by comments that might be made here, is absolutely not in the interest of those farmers who have seen better prices in recent years for their beef and their dairy product last year. Obviously prices are also dictated to by supply and demand around the globe. But the access to the markets we get and the higher value markets that Origin Green opens the door for us to are absolutely critical. Brief. Next speaker. What everyone needs to wear their Irish jersey. Absolutely. If there are any outstanding questions. I'll bring in Brazilian meat. To send on the answers. That's what we do when they are abroad. Deputy Kenny. Thank you very much Chair.