Brendan Smith denounces proposed amnesty as 'reprehensible'

Thank you very much, Cahirleach. Again, I welcome Raymond, Cathay and Michael. As our Cahirleach said, you have made a powerful contribution, your opening contribution and your follow-up remarks as well. I do not think any of us could quibble with what you have said. In your opening statement, you referred in particular to the need for dialogue, equality and truth. You emphasised that the process needs to be victims-led and victims-centred. I think you are concluding remarks there in regard to how victims can be denoted at times. It is a thing that we can all be more conscious of. I know when I speak of victims, I include victims regardless of what background they were, or whether they had any political belief or belonged to any religious belief either. We should make the point, and I take that particular fact. There are a few things in your opening remarks. You made the point as well about money, and I quote, money going into the communities should be made public and accountable. It is being abused with providers turning a blind eye. Well, if there is cause for concern, then there is an obligation on all of us. If there is public money from our Department of Foreign Affairs or other agencies that are funded by our taxpayer here, then if we have evidence of wrongdoing or money being misappropriated, then we have an obligation to raise that, and we will if we have particular concerns. I am sure that that goes likewise for legislators in Northern Ireland or in people who are in the House of Commons either, so it does. I am sure nobody would have a problem with questioning if there is public funding being put into projects that are to the better everybody in society, then they should not be misappropriated by any grouping, organisation or individual, because we all know public funding can be scarce at times, and we want to see it put to the proper use. I think what you mentioned, dialogue, equality, truth, victim-led, victim sense, they are a basic tenet of fairness in any society. You know, what you have outlined there is very, is absolutely essential, very necessary, but it should be part of our everyday working and part of everyday public administration as well. Could I just say that over the years, and this committee has, through different Dahl and Shanad, we have gone out and met as many groups, and I do not think any group has ever refused access to this committee over the years, and then we have visited the Borda counties in Northern Ireland and met different groups, always going out to listen to different groups and hear first hand from people like yourselves who have unfortunately continued to be victims of terrible deeds carried out by paramilitaries and by state forces as well. I know we have had a lot of engagement with a number of groups that think of offhand justice for the forgotten, and wave trauma through the reconciliation platform. I have listened, I have met those groups, and I have spoken to families who have been the beneficiaries of the work of those groups as well. I think we learned a great deal when we visit the wave trauma centre in Belfast or in Derry, and we met people who have been supported, family members of victims who have been supported over the years through those particular centres. But if there are people not being represented or not being listened to, then that has to be a source of concern for all of us. I recall, and I think it is probably about a year ago or so at this committee, I asked our Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister Coveney, was he confident or was his department confident that within our state, for which he has responsibility, were we confident that all victims were being reached? Because oftentimes we know that people do not partake in groups or do not wish to participate in groups, but he said that his department was confident that all victims' families in our state, that they had been represented or that they had been reached out to by different statutory agencies. And I sincerely hope that that is accurate. Some people may not want to be involved in the process, but he was confident that victims here had been reached out to and had been listened to. And I sincerely hope that that is right, because that is the very least, God, that people need. You are opening remarks in regard to the British government proposal in regard to an amnesty. You know, such a proposal by a democratically elected government is absolutely reprehensible. You might expect such a proposal from some tin-pot regime of bygone days in South America or somewhere. But to think that a government would put forward a proposal to put an end to investigations where people are trying to seek the truth. And all of us are aware of many families who have campaigned for decades to try to get the truth about how their family member, their loved one was lost. And they know, in many instances, unfortunately, that getting justice would be extremely difficult. But the least that they want is to get the truth in regard to who carried out the horrific, reprehensible and despicable crimes that caused death and or injury as well to so many. And I know many of those families that I have represented and worked along with my own constituency for people who lost family members decades ago. And they still go on searching with great dignity and grace to try to get the truth. And to think that a government proposal would come up to put an end to that investigation and say to those people, your work has been an absolute, is now an end is being put to it. When you would always hope that through your work supported by support groups that you might get the truth, hopefully, and that maybe justice would be meted out to the people who committed the crimes as well. We had discussions at this committee on a number of occasions in regard to the British government proposal. We also had many times in the Dáil questions to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. And I recall just in the immediate aftermath, I think it was of the anniversary of the Bloody Sunday in Derry, we had a specific Dáil debate in early February in relation to the Amnesty proposal in regard to legacy and victims issues. And about three weeks subsequently, we had another Dáil debate on that issue as well, where both Antishuk and the Minister of Foreign Affairs and other senior party representatives of all parties made very, very strong contributions in regard to total opposition to the British government proposal and the absolute need to make progress with so many of the issues that you have outlined so cogently and so well here today. But that is not taken away from the amount of work that needs to go on. But just to think what the British government came up with, it is absolutely opposed by every representative in our Houses of Parliament, both in Dáil Airden and in Shannon Airden. That is my firm, I think that is clear. And the work that you did getting all the political parties to sign that particular document has been important as well. Could I just say, you mention of a cover-up. Well, cover-up for state forces, cover-up for paramilitaries or cover-up for agents of the state forces is not acceptable either. And the truth is absolutely important. As you said in your opening remarks as well, no one except the guilty should be frightened of the truth. And that particular statement is again, it's exceptionally powerful as well. And it's one that I would be glad to say to you that you sum up so much so well there. So, just we, you mentioned about follow-up on documents. Now we speak in the Dáil and at times we can speak here. But I accept the fact that many families, the vast majority of sure, will not be aware of the work that we are doing. So maybe we fall down in getting a message out to show that we continue to support. That's our fault. I suppose the nature of political work is we discuss the issues here and the wider community aren't aware of those discussions. They are not aware of the concern of the representation that we make to government ministers or to departments or statutory agencies either. But it's a very valid point that you make. So the only way we can hope to get that message disseminated is through representative groups, through advocacy groups. So we sincerely hope, you know, that the work that we do and it's always in support of the causes that you have outlined so well. I think we need to do a better job ourselves in getting that message across as well. But we have, I mentioned the debates we've had at the Dáil and Shannon. I know our colleagues here, Senator Erin Green, Senator Eamore Currie, along with others, would have been instrumental in having similar debates in Shannon Ayrton. So there are, there are issues that are discussed here constantly, quite rightly, and we want to see progress on it. So thank you. Sure. Sure. Sure.