Mattie McGrath praises PPP schools and urges education reform

Gourmahaigut. I apologize, but I was here, I thought I was number five, and I checked with you ten minutes ago. Yes, thanks to me, and look, I was waiting to get in his leave, and so was my colleague, Deputy Connors, but he's a slaughter today, so apologies. Yes, look, Minister, we badly need reforms, and indeed, you know, right across the whole spectre of the education sector, from the Neenra at the play schools, you know, to third and fourth level, and continuing education. And education, as far as I'm concerned, is from the cradle to the grave. And I know that you're a very understanding Minister, and on top of your brief always, and you'll come from the same stable maybe as myself, and dealing with these issues, but the whole facet of, and the wide range, and the difference of education, and indeed, we were interested in today, talking about your colleague, Darrell Brinesville, and the whole PPPs, and the schools, and when I was on the VEC, when I was on the Board of Management of National Schools, and then I was on the VEC, and I was on the Board of Management of Secondary Schools, and that's all in there when I came to, but the changes, and, you know, the whole diverse range now, that has to be, that has to be dealt with, and has to be embraced, and worked with, and the job now of principals and Board of Management is a hugely important role. And that's why I've said the PPPs are such a good thing, because there's one school in California, sure, and indeed, the principal, Kevin Langton, is an excellent principal, and the numbers have doubled in the two and a half years since it opened. At the second level, the VEC school, a private-public partnership, but so alongside Mr. Langton's office is the manager's office, and the manager has nothing to do with the students, or the learning, or the intuition, but he or she has the job of maintaining the school, from the front gate, right to the back gate, and upstairs, downstairs, and inside, whether it's to be a tap, whether it's to be a slate, whether something happens out in the grass, or whatever. And that's, I think, a fabulous system. It's obviously a, I think, it may be bad, but I could be wrong, but it's a consortium that have at least, provided and built it, another one, a sister one in Trimor, down the road. A magnificent building, a magnificent addition to the town of Carrickenshire, a south Kilkenny, south Tipperary, and that part of Waterford, down the south of Port Law, and beyond. And, indeed, a special needs unit as well, a special tuition for people with, you know, different learning issues. And, I honestly want to say, I was aghast, and I couldn't believe the sheer size, and the state of the act of the building. And, of course, that's all useless, if you're having an excellent teaching staff under the apprenticeship of Kevin Langton, and his wonderful staff, and they're expanding all the time. And, you know, there will be great reports coming from there. And, of course, the chairperson of the Board of Management, Councillor Cairne Burke, and the voluntary board. It's very important to have all those factors working together. working together. And they have to be all pulling together, and working together. And it's an honour to ask people, especially lay people, or, indeed, local authority members, or whoever, BEC members. And, I'd have to say, when I was on the Board of Management of the Colossae Dionyski and Cairne, the Sisters of Mercy, who had amalgamated the BEC School, and the Convent of Mercy, and, indeed, St. Joseph's, which was a school. I wouldn't say a private school, because I went there myself, but two pioneers that came from County Cork, the late Tom McGrane, the late Vincent Russell, and cycled on the bikes to return to Cairne, and set up a school. With little or no support from the Government. It was a very poor building, but there were some great people that came out of it. And there were great teachers, and Gerry Gruffrey, the medicine science teacher, still alive, and Anna Calleram, and Ish, and, you know, and many others. So, when you contrast what they operate on a shoestring, what the V sector, which my own brother was a teacher, and then, they had the funding, and have been funded, well funded, for the last 25 years, certainly. But, the school in County Cork ensured that effort, it was waiting for 30 years to make it. The late, former Councillor Dines Burke, and many others, and Councillor Hommey Hogan, and many others fought for decades, to get it over the line. And, I suppose it's a pity that the two other schools didn't amalgamate, but they chose to stay on their own, the Green School and the Convent. And, look, that's their entitlement. But, in many cases, they did amalgamate. In Cairne they amalgamated, and later more out the road over the mountains, Trussians and Slater, they amalgamated. But, they have been working hard, working together, and to see them building an extension. So, look, that's huge issues, then, from the whole, I suppose, getting people. And, it will be hard. It will be hard in schools, but you don't have a system like that. That's the creme de la creme of operations, because the principal doesn't have to do anything, only, sorry, do an awful lot. But, looking after his teachers, looking after his pupils, above all, looking after the representation from the Board of Management and the Parents' Council, and the well-being of the adulty, the students, where he doesn't have to worry about a lightbulb or a leaking roof. Many of the principals do. And, they have no support whatsoever. They have to look after everything. And, they're not qualified, they tell you, especially national school teachers. They never set out to be architects, and engineers, and health and safety officers, and, indeed, many other issues that go with it. There's only three I mentioned, but there's huge areas. The doctor, the nurse, the specialist, the counsellor, that's a counsellor, not an elected counsellor, and, indeed, above all, you know, trying to bring the heating staff with them, and responsible for all the children, and our parents, our guardians, however. So, it's an onerous job, and needs to be respected. And, we should have time for walking principals, and they should be allowed, they're not looking for that much, to be honest, time, but they need that time to deal with all the paperwork. The reams of paperwork are never-ending. And, they've become more bureaucratic, and more schemes, and rules, and regulations, and COVID, I can't imagine how they've managed that. I haven't put them inside any school since COVID, or any of this year, but I can't understand how they've managed that at all. But, they have. We've got out this year to get them with the exams just completed. And, I wish all the adulty, the very best, and the results wouldn't, no matter what model they chose, or what blend, or both. I wish them well in the future. But, Minister, they need to be recognised. Same as the school secretaries. No continuity. They might be there for years. In many cases, they're as good as the principal, because they're the front line for any of us as parents, any students, in the first instance, anybody else, and they deal with everything else. And, the caretakers. And, I have them in there, Paddy Lundgren was a caretaker in Klaus Lundinski. Wonderful man. Jack of all trades. Master of none, but an exceptional, dedicated job. You can imagine a school with 830 pupils, and to be a caretaker there on your own. It's a huge, huge job. And, whether it's a pantomime they want to put on, or whether it's a sports day in the sports hall, or whatever. The place is transformed with help from students and others, but they have to be cognizant of health and safety, and all the guidelines, and rules, and regulations. So, we need a huge evaluation. And, I have great respect for Antara Edochis, Deputy Foley, Dr Foley. Great respect for her. And, I think she has an understanding, Montor Freshen, and she has an understanding, and she has a willingness to engage, and to, like yourself, Minister of State for Living, and talk about issues, and deal with issues, not them and us, and high-powered, you know, high-pollute and stuff. So, and I wish you both really make a good team. A very good team. So, I mean, but that's huge issues. Not going near the issues of the Educate Together, and all the other issues that are, those areas there. And, just to deal with normal, you know, as I said, I'm not saying they're not normal, but to deal with issues that were there always, and simple issues, and straightforward issues. With the whole pattern, then, of, you know, the different changes to sex education, which is so vital, and so important. But, I have an armbells about some of the things that have been introduced in the syllabus. Certainly, I have. And, I don't mind staying here. This is the place to say it. And, the whole push for, you know, too quickly, in my opinion, for, you know, kind of new issues that have been introduced. And, no proper training or resources for the school management, or teachers, or indeed, backup staff, or anybody else, or the families. And, I have issues where the family, where parents and guardians are not happy with that, and they should be listening to too. This bullying is hugely issue there as well. Bullying, like, insisted, and if they're concerned, and raise their concerns, oh, they're demonized, often as kind of backwards, or too conservative, whatever. They're entitled to raise their children, once they're safety-minded, and railed, and have that. And, I believe the children, in national school especially, and preschool especially, should be allowed to develop themselves, without being told that they might be something else, or investigate if they would, or they feel happy on something else. I do. But, Minister, you have a big area on your plate, and the slow pace of delivery of new projects is alarming. And, Minister, I'll ask you, and it's also your own county. If it's not, it's not far away from you. It's in Johnstown. They're all fabs, and they're a great facility, don't be wrong, and they're great, and I've often used them to house people, to build the mountables. But, the money that's been expanded, on prefabs, and temporary buildings, it's just mind-boggling, and shocking. And why we can't grasp it, and deal with it, with the last 30 years, is just mushrooms. And, what's paid in rent, for these buildings, would build schools, all over the place. It could be just put in the bricks and mortar, and put into PPP projects, or whatever. And, it's quite out to rent, because, I would, often, I was taught in the prefab, I was actually, and I, but I often went to classes, adult classes in prefab, and I often attended schools, speaking to classes, or whatever, and attended meetings in prefabs. They're not a suitable building. I know they're ones that are better, for learning, and tuition, and for people to disseminate information. So, I, I think that, if you could do anything, I'm a human actor, or Minister Foley, and there's lots of things, to be done, but, I think this has to be investigated, and has to be understood, and the full extent of it. And, I see now, hospitals, and many other places, are getting these quick bills, they'll be signed in 20 years. So, we're solving a short term problem, but, they won't last structurally. That's why, I'm involved in construction, I know they won't last, and you know, they won't last, it's so hard to heat them, and we're talking about the energy savings, and everything else. So, that, that area, totally, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, that angle either. But, as regards, as I said, lifelong learning, from the cradle, to the grave, and I think it's wonderful, and I'd have to salute, the editorial board, of the ETB, you know, in Tipperary, and elsewhere, and people who work there, Mary Roach, and, and, and many more people, I've worked with. And, the way they have engaged with people, even to do theory tests, and even to get, you know, and many of them, adults, and, fairly senior, the literary skills, that went through their own education, limited as it was, without ever, anyone, picking up that they, hadn't, the learning skills, and the writing skills, they needed. Many of them are geniuses, and can, can run businesses, and their own business, that's implied, but, they have that, they have that difficulty, so, I'd have to say, more funding, should be put into, as I said, the further, and continued education, and to try, and ensure that, and I salute the tutors there as well, and I know how difficult it is, I know, a mentor, sorry, a mentor, that's, doing a lot of voluntary work, with, as I call them, our newcomers, and we have many of them, in town of care, probably, more than a third of our community, and helping them, to learn the English language, and so did Kathleen, who was, a wonderful, the Irish, and the Irish, and the Gaelic, and my own, the Black Gaelic, and she arrived in the square, and she was putting on a play, and, I think there was 15 different nationalities, 20 years ago, there was only one nationality, maybe 10 years ago, there were three or four, and she said to me, they can learn the Irish, easier, than they can learn the English, and they can learn any language, for that matter, they can learn any language, I suppose, easy, but the Irish, and the Gaelic, I was a Black Gaelic, up to 57, my own late, Shannwacher, didn't have any English, and some of you might say, that my English, mightn't be the best either, but, that's fine, it's what I have, but she didn't have, so, I mean, and we have a wonderful, which I was proud, to be involved with, with Helen Duggan, and setting that up, back, years ago, flourishing, oversubscribed, a wonderful, there's 20 jobs in it, in the small village, cars coming from all areas, in the morning, long distances, coming to that, flourishing development, and, at the moment, in the process of buying a house, and a joining house, to expand, and, preschool services there, and the after school services, to mind the children, and I have, my own kids, grandkids, sorry, Gael, Amy, and indeed, Carol Rose, and, sorry, Orlan Carol Rose, and, and, the care they get, from Joanne and the whole team, Mary Dowling, the care they get, is second to none, so, it's a wonderful facility, to be in any small village, so, the wide, circumference, of all the different, aspects of education, when I was in school, and your school minister, it was national school, and maybe secondary school, and some of the family, might get to university, not easy, but now, you have to embrace, the whole, remit of services, and as I said, the teaching staff, the board, the voluntary boards, the parish priests, let's be fair to them, and the nuns, and, at the moment, you know, it's just so stretched, and they're on board, the management, and I would defend them anywhere, we have people in this house, attacking the parish priests, the priests, and the nuns, it's fashionable now, to be attacking them, but, there was a few bad apples, and there were every, every society, but, I wanted to defend the sisters, they educated us, and we had no schools, before Thomas Murray, and they did it, voluntary, and they were, and that's why, they're such expensive, the wage bills now, in the schools, and the hospitals, when the sisters, are no longer there, and then they came on, at the board of management, and I could say, I learned so much, from the sisters, and I said, on an interview with them, and they were just, exemplary, in their knowledge of, of teaching, knowledge of people's, you know, experience, and indeed, knowledge of dealing with people, sensitively, and humanely, and doing that voluntary work, as an interview with panels, and certainly, we have to look at that, so we can never forget, our history, we must look forward, of course we must, but we look back as well, to where we came from, and we have criticisms, of the education sector, and there are many, but, I do think that, the third level, and it was badly, this year, the past years, in Scoville, it was shameful, and I direct experience, my youngest daughter, Cailin went in, so there's so little, class, there's so little life, they were trying to do it online, and the money was taken off, and we were lucky, we can afford to pay it, but people that struggled, over Friday evening, they were told Saturday, then there was, they wouldn't be there on campus, so, the whole system then, of fairness, regarding the, the parent, and the student charter, very important, but there's a charter needed, for the students, and the education providers, now I always salute, I don't ever demonise landlords, or some bad ones there as well, but people provide the infrastructure, they take the risk, and they put it there, but, there should have been, there must be a, a student, landlord, charter, and it can't be, I know we brought in legislation recently, to deal with, to cap, the charges that they can have for deposits, but there's a big area there, of whole, apart from the money at all, which is, which is an awful lot of people, and the pressure it puts on families, and the peer pressure it puts on, on, on students, there must be a charter there, that respects the students of all, they have enough, of pressures on them, without to be worried about, rent and issues, and everything else, and they must be, so we need that charter, the charter here, for the pupils, and the parents, is very important, yes, but the biggest charter of all, for the parents, and the children, is since, the, the, the, the home, that's where the biggest chapter, that's where the contracts are signed, when the children, are born, and reared, and get, I know there's dysfunction in families, and there's issues, and difficulties, we have to look at, and, and stimulate, and nurture, and not all, out into big, big issues, and we're a charter for this, and a charter for the other, and we're, very little common sense, often, and it's many, we don't have common sense, so, it's a huge area, as I said, from, the cradle, education now, to literally, to the grave, and I do, Minister, wish you well, and I support your efforts, here, with this piece of legislation, and I thank you, so, I had to go downstairs, just got back up, so, go to Marcus. Go to Marcus, and you can see, the only thing, it's a good thing, and I'm going to show you, and I'll show you, how to prepare for this, and to the other, and I'll show you, and I'll show you, and I'll show you, and I'll show you, and I'll show you, and I'll show you,