Richard O'Donoghue: Alleges NDAs Hid Hospital Failings

Taoiseach, last week I spoke here in the House about Jessica Sheedy, who died in UHL Hospital in Limerick, and the case of Dr Lal, where he admitted 13 counts of misconduct, and that has been dealt with in its own. But today I want, and I see the Minister for Justice here as well, and I also need your help on this Minister. Today I want to talk to you about the management, and the management who used non-disclosure agreements to silence people to avoid accountability. I am aware of people who came forward prior to Jessica Sheedy's operation, well prior to the operation, who had concerns in UHL Hospital. And those people where victimisation was used, where their careers would not excel, where they could look for references. These people were used to sign non-disclosure agreements. This is wrong. Under the Maternity, Protection, Employment, Equality and Preservation of Certain Records Act 2024, NDAs are void when victimisation occurs, including harassment, sexual harassment, discrimination, discrimination or relations related to employment. What I am asking here today, those people that came forward, in whatever hospital around this country came forward, are those people now protected under the Act 2024, where patients and public were put at risk, risk, and NDAs were used to withhold information from inquiries, investigations, and why they put the public and patients at risk on the people that were not competent to do their job. I have full respect for people in the medical profession of all parts that are competent in doing their job, and sometimes mistake happens. That happens, but you learn from the mistake. You do not cover it up. Eight years it took to get the information out for somebody to admit guilt. Eight years. How many more non-disclosure agreements have been signed to prevent the course of justice? That's what I want to know. Are they fully protected under this Act if they come out now? And I don't want to hear, like others said, oh, you're 100% protected? We've heard that before, when whistleblowers were involved. This time I need to know from Government and I need official response. Thank you. Thank you Deputy for raising the issue. And without question, there should be no cover-up in respect of any medical misadventure, any errors, any wrongdoing. Hospitals, and in my view the medical community should own up immediately. And that is good practice. It's been unacceptable that for decades many families had to go for long periods endeavouring to find out the full truth in respect of what happened their loved ones. Now, the Patient Safety Notifiable Incidents and Open Disclosure Act of 2023, a landmark piece of patient safety legislation, was commenced in September 2024. It provides a legislative framework for a number of important patient safety issues, including the mandatory open disclosure of a list of specified serious patient safety incidents that must be disclosed to the patient and to their family. It was passed by both houses and signed by the President in May of 2023, commenced in September. It's to ensure that families and patients have access to comprehensive and timely information. It's achieved by open disclosure mechanism in the Act. It contributes to embedding a culture whereby clinicians and the health services as a whole engage openly, transparently, and compassionately with patients and their families. The requirements apply to all healthcare bodies, including the HSE, all Section 38 organisations, Section 39 organisations, private hospitals, private health and social care providers, such as GPs, dentists and pharmacists. The Act contains a provision by which the Minister can add to this list via regulation. Patients and their families must have access, as I've said, to comprehensive and timely information, including an apology where appropriate. I think we've seen good examples recently from the Chief Executive Officer, Bernard Gloucester, who in a number of cases has really changed culture, it would appear to me, and has come forward, identified clear faults and apologised to himself publicly on behalf of the HSE in respect of significant wrongdoing and errors that have been made. The HSE have updated their national open disclosure policy, and the Department of the HSE in consultation with the stakeholders are currently finalising a revised HSE incident management framework which sets out a serious instance of review and learned from. I'm told that the Act was commenced other than Section 68. I don't have the specifics around Section 68 with me today, but that's what I've been told and the information I have here. Also, the implementation of the Clark Report into the tragic death of Aoife Johnson at University Hospital Limerick did bring forward a number of significant improvements also supporting the implementation of key initiatives such as the Framework for Safe Nurse Staffing, Skill Mix, the Emergency Medicine Early Warning System, updated Sepsis Guidelines, a new national quality improvement framework for emergency department triage and local escalation plans. Managements actions caused serious bodily harm and in some cases caused death. My question is here is eight years withholding of information, how many other cases are like this and you mentioned Aoife Johnson god rest us all as well so we've Jessica Sheedy as well so what I'm trying to say here management withheld information signed non-declausure agreements spent eight years with one case alone that's obstructing the course of justice this is my problem they obstructed the course of justice people and patients were put at harm and some people have died if this was outside the remit of the health service Mr Jim O'Callaghan there would have me up the steps and would have me in prison now for obstruction of justice seriously body of harm and you will be put in prison if you've done this we have management that are still in place in this hospital have covered up information that could have helped a learning hospital and could have saved lives rather than covering it up thank you that's what I need to try and make sure I think historically and historically the cultural norm in medicine was not to disclose openly it's fair to say over time that has changed I would have to say as well to be honest to all involved but we still have a distance to go in my view that we learn through error and medicine is not fail proof although the more you create a systemic approach to the to medicine the less error you have the cult of the miracle worker or the cult of the brilliant person was always a challenge and a cultural challenge within health it's a system right approach that reduces adverse incidents and bad practice poor practice you have to have a systemic approach and the culture has to be all about that and most of the training colleges know it is all about that multidisciplinary teams working together every person on that team being an important cognitive we have to make sure that the surgery goes properly or the treatment of a condition goes thank you teacher and I think open disclosure is the key to that non-disclosure agreements have no part of that that concludes leaders questions I now move to other members deputy willy