Paul Murphy demands clarity for Leaving Cert; urges end to CAO points

Taoiseach, for the third year in a row, your government has left its homework to the very last minute. We are only weeks away from the Leaving Cert mocks and still students don't know what they're going to face this year. They might be less than six months away from what will be one of the most stressful exams of their life and they don't know what the government is planning for them. We know that even in a normal year more than half of students experience mental or physical health issues as a result of the Leaving Cert. But these students this year have also had to deal with two years of complete disruption to their studies. It's stressful enough already without the added fear of having to miss an exam or perhaps lose out on a college place due to catching Covid in the middle of them. They haven't been able to have a traditional education. They cannot be expected to sit a traditional Leaving Cert. It is time. It is time. It is way, way past time to give clarity to this year of students. But it's not just that Taoiseach. Taoiseach, it is time to scrap the Irish version of the Squid Games. What we call the CAO points rat race. It is not necessary. It is based on artificial scarcity of third level places and a dog-eat-dog market competition. It translates social inequality into educational inequality, with those who can afford grinds and private education having a huge head start. The result is that 99% of young people living in Dublin 6 go on to higher education, while only 16% of those from Dublin 10 go on to do so. There is an alternative to this system Taoiseach. We need to remove the barriers to education, open access to third level to all, and ensure there is a college place for everyone who wants one. The AASTI has proposed open access to third level as the only fair and equitable alternative. We agree. What that means is a place in third level for everyone who wants one, together with massively expanded apprenticeship schemes. The CAO offers roughly 55,000 places for 80,000 applicants. So it means making another 25,000 places available in first year. That can be done. The staff, for example, are already there. There are already 11,000 staff, primarily women, on short-time or part-time contracts who should immediately be offered full-time contracts. All of it requires an immediate increase in investment, scrap the fees, provide living grants. We know the wealth increase exists in this country to do it. Question for the Taoiseach. One, will you please give clarity to this year's students about what is going to happen? Secondly, this time last year, you yourself said that the Leaving Cert was too inflexible, that we needed a new system. Do you still believe that? And if you do, will you act now to abolish the points rat race? First of all, I do accept that for the students who are due to sit the Leaving Cert this year, it has been a very stressful time for them during COVID-19. This government has been in office now for one year and a half, not three years, one year and a half. We did have to deal with the Leaving Cert certificate last year. And there are already differences between what we did then and now or could do now as opposed to last year. So, for example, I remember last year you would have been very robustly against historic profiling as a basis for standardization of results for students. Twenty-five percent of this year's Leaving Cert certificate cohort did not do the junior certificate. So, the statisticians and those involved, we met the Chief Inspector last evening and I met with the Secretary along with the Minister for Education. So, if you want to go for the accredited grades model, such a model this year would involve the use of historic profiling. And that, I think, is problematic. Now, the Minister is meeting with the advisory group. She's met with all of the stakeholders collectively and is meeting with them bilaterally. So, let's not pretend to everybody that this is simple and easy because this is something that has to be worked out for the benefit of students, ultimately. Not just in the context of the Leaving Cert but in terms of progression onto a variety of courses, be they apprenticeship, further education or third level. And we have a qualifications framework and one of the benefits of that, it puts the learner first, not the institution. And there are opportunities this year and there will always be opportunities within the context of that qualifications framework for students to progress to FETAC, HETAC, right onto higher postgraduate education also. And that is the key thing to remember. And what we must, the decisions that the Minister has to arrive at following consultation with the stakeholders, has to be about the overall best interest of the students, not just today but right through this year and next year. And there are challenges this year because of the fact that 25% of this year's Leaving Cert don't have junior cert results to benchmark against. And I think that needs to be put out there. That's just a fact. In addition to that, we have one of the highest participation rates in third level education across Europe. It's one of the benefits that has happened in this country over the last 50 years. We have progressively increased second level completion rates to our credit as a country. And we have very, very significantly increased third level participation rates. Never gets said in this house, but it remains the fact. The idea that you just throw open and sort of say everybody can come in and we will provide a high quality targeted higher education provision, I think is illusory. It's deliberately so. It's not possible and it's not doable. And it's certainly not doable next June. And I think we need a dose of reality in respect of those kind of proposals. It's not fair to students to be suggesting that type of an approach which just isn't possible. But I do accept the need for clarity. And that needs to happen quickly. And the Minister is very possessed of that reality also. And we'll bring this to a conclusion within the next week. Deputy Murphy. Deputy Murphy. Thanks Taoiseach. I mean that if there are any students who watch, they'll have gotten that the Taoiseach accepts the need for clarity. But they will have gotten no further clarity from the Taoiseach about what a decision is going to be made or when the decision is going to be made. is going to be made, and I would stress that they need it, and they need it as soon as is possible. The other point that I would make is that I do not accept that the idea that open access to third-level education is illusory – no, it is not. We currently have open access to second-level education. Is that illusory? No. Everyone is able to go from first-level education to second-level education, and we are able to provide it. Could we say that absolutely everyone who wants to go to third-level education can do so? Could we do away with the huge mental health pressure on second-level students of the Leaving Search? Could we do the investment in education? Could we unleash the potential of many of those people who do not currently manage to get to third-level education, the benefit to our society that would be done from doing so? Could that be done? Absolutely. It could be done. Would that benefit our society as a whole? Absolutely. Is it a choice by your government to say that no, the billionaires who have 60% extra wealth, they instead get to increase their wealth year on year, instead of investing into our education of our young people? That is a choice that your government chooses to make. The billionaires will always get access to third-level education. The harder task is to make sure that we create from the early years on the opportunities for people to progress in early education, primary and second level, so that they will have the capacity to progress into third-level. That is where I would put the extra investment, into early childhood education and into child care, where the full development of the child can be realised much earlier and the potential of the child can be developed much earlier, irrespective of background or circumstances. It is not all about going to college for college's sake. And if you look at the first-year results in some courses in some areas at third level, there is a high attrition rate. That is not in anyone's interest that people enter into a programme and that you could have high attrition rates. So we need to be sensible about this. One of the best things that has been happening in the last two years and so, it is a dramatic increase in apprenticeships. You do not have to go to third level to do good quality apprenticeships. And they are happening. So our role really is to make sure that there is as wide an availability of options for students as we possibly can. And we should increase those options at second level. That was one of my criticisms of the second level. And the Minister is committed to reforming the Leaving Certificate. Not in some knee-jerk reactionary ray as occasioned by COVID, but rather in a more sensible, informed way in terms of the need for continuing assessment into the future and so on, and having a more varied Leaving Cert options for students.