Gino Kenny on National Maternity Hospital: Ethos and Ownership

My question surrounds the future of the proposed National Maternity Hospital on the grounds of St. Vincent's Hospital, and Minister, I know this has been a long saga in relation to the National Maternity Hospital, but I think what people want to know is clarity in relation to the ethos and the ownership of the National Maternity Hospital. I thank the Deputy for his question, and we will be having a detailed session later on on this as well this evening, where I'm sure we'll be getting into more of the detail. Well, can I begin by restating the position I've had right from the start of this, which is that I will only bring proposals on the new National Maternity Hospital to government with absolute guarantees of full independence for the National Maternity Hospital, and absolute guarantees that all of the services that are prescribed under law will be services available in the new National Maternity Hospital, as they are in Hollis Street right now, and there will be no religious influence from Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Maoist, you name it, this will be a hospital that will be run according to the laws of this land. Under the proposed legal framework, neither the Vatican nor the religious sisters of charity will play any role, Deputy, in the governance of the new hospital, in the operation of the new hospital. The sisters are transferring their shareholding to the new entity, the public constitution of St. Vincent's holding makes no reference to canon law. My department has previously been advised that canon law will not impact on anything to do with this new hospital whatsoever. Regardless of who owns the land on which the new hospital is built, the legal framework is being developed to address both the ownership and critically the governance of the hospital. There are several priorities to ensure that all clinically appropriate and legally permissible services will be available in the new National Maternity Hospital to prevent any undue influence, religious or otherwise, on the operation of the new hospital, and obviously to safeguard the state's very significant investment in the new hospital. Minister, are you absolutely confident that that will happen? Because obviously this is an ongoing saga for the last 10 years, and for the casual observer, it's extremely confusing in relation to the ownership of the land, the ethos of the building itself. From my understanding that the actual building will be owned by the state, but the board will still be run by a kind of a private holding, i.e. the sisters of charity. Now if that's the case, that may be not conducive in relation to Catholic ethos. Now you understand, you know, you're probably on the same page as us, but there is something kind of awry in relation to ethos in one guise, and the ownership, and obviously public money. So obviously all that doesn't kind of add to where we all want to go. So there is confusion. Thank you very much, Deputy. All I can really do is repeat the position, which is the final structure, when I bring it to government for approval, will have multiple layers of protection in place. The religious sisters of charity will have no hand, act, part, role, influence, board membership, or anything else in the new structures. That's simply not going to happen. I think you're right, though, Deputy, there is genuine concern out there, and I've spent time talking to the midwives, talking to the doctors in the National Maternity Hospital. These are the women and the men who are treating mums, who are treating babies, and they are really concerned about what they have described as a campaign of misinformation. It's their lawyers who are writing the contracts. Ultimately, I think we need to listen very carefully to the midwives, we need to listen very carefully to the doctors, and what they are telling us is that they are absolutely satisfied that the new structures give them all of the independence that they need. And what they keep expressing to me, and they've written publicly now several times, to ask those who are running what I'm not, but what the midwives and the doctors are calling a campaign of misinformation, to stop for the very reasons that you've outlined. I'll take your word on that. And what the women of Ireland will want to know is when will construction begin? Because we've seen projects in the state before where they're completely dragged out, and eventually, they may never be built. So, obviously, you know, this modern hospital for the 24th century has to have a modern ethos to fit the 24th century. We live in a different era now than it was when Hollistery was a completely different age in Ireland. So, look, I'm going to take you on your word, and what I want to try to get from the last segment of my kind of contributions is that when do you think actually this will be signed off, and the work to begin actually on the campus of St. Vincent? Thank you very much, Deputy. The work on the enabling structures has already commenced. So, there's a lot of work has already happened on the car park. A lot of work has been done on a pharmacy. The process is, I want to bring this to government very soon. I imagine we'll have a very rigorous debate. Very happy to bring it to the health committee and tease it out that way as well. I think there's a lot of interest, and what I want to do is make myself available, the officials available, and probably most importantly, the clinicians from the National Maternity Hospital available to engage with the Oireachtas and to answer some very real questions and some very real concerns that members of the Oireachtas have. So, what I hope to do is to bring a memo very shortly to government on that, and then as soon as that is done, we move forward with the process in terms of planning and development and design, and then getting into building the hospital as quickly as possible. Because, as you quite rightly said, there were concerns raised last year, genuine concerns raised. We have significantly improved the proposal since then, a huge amount of work has gone on, but again, this all takes time. And as the Deputy quite rightly says, this hospital has been talked about for 10 years, and really now, once we're satisfied that we have the guarantees, the legal guarantees around independence and governance, we need to get on and get this hospital built. Thank you, Mr. Grant.