Carol Nolan: Calls ban on public worship 'fundamentally wrong'

Go rae maat agathe, Cian Coirle. Yes, I want to add my voice to this. I believe that it's fundamentally wrong to deny people, the people of Ireland, the right to attend mass or service or public worship, depending on their religion. I believe also that, you know, this government needs to be fair with people and show some compassion. People are finding the pandemic very, very tough and challenging. And indeed, it is a very dark time for many. So why not give them the solace of attending their charge? And the comfort and support that people do get from that. I want to commend Canon White, who took the case, the Catholic priest in Scotland. It was found to be legal. But it appears here that the state don't know whether it's legal or illegal. So that shows us straight away that they're on very shaky ground and are very unsure of themselves. Also, the Garda Press Office was unable to confirm whether public worship is a relevant event under the Relevant Events Act. So we're in a very serious situation. I believe it was very, very, very wrong to ban public worship and very unfair on people. And I'm asking the government to show some compassion, particularly coming up to Holy Week. Thank you, Deputy. And I would like to thank deputies McGraw, Nolan, Collins and O'Donoghue for raising this important matter. And as the deputy, it's not my first time either, Cian Coirle, to take this particular issue. I took it a number of weeks ago from the deputies as well. And as the deputies are aware that the current public health restrictions at level five will remain in place until the 5th of April 2021, when a further review will be conducted. And this decision took account of a variety of factors, including the views of the national public health emergency team and the current epidemiology of COVID-19 and the need to take decisive action. The government remains united in its resolve to tackle the spread of COVID-19. The disease prevention and control strategy and we've adopted seek to prevent the spreading of this virus amongst our population and the greatest extent possible. Based on the current epidemiology situation and the public health restrictions that are in place, it will be necessary to celebrate Easter online at home this year. This is for the protection of our friends, our families and our wider communities. The basic public health advice and regulatory measures aimed at blocking the transmission of COVID-19 from person to person remain vital. From the beginning of the pandemic, we have emphasised that many measures that can be taken for keeping to do this, like keep our distance, wash your hands, wearing our face masks and avoiding crowds to take these measures. The COVID-19 resilience and recovery plan continues to provide an appropriate mechanism to guide decision making, and it will continue to be supplemented by more detailed sectorial guidance in relation to measures that apply at each level of the framework. We continue to see good progress, but it needs to be sustained. Speaking on a personal basis, I would like to assure the deputies that I am extremely conscious of the burdens which have been placed on all members of society as a result of the restrictions that have been imposed. Many people have been able to live their lives the way they normally would, or participate in the usual rhythms of their community. I know that very many people in Ireland have not been able to go to local church, but it has been particularly difficult during this lengthened period and also again for Holy Week, which is a major source, as Deputy Norland said, as a source of comfort and solace at what is a very difficult time for our country and indeed for the world. Unfortunately, as the members of the House now know, the environment in which COVID spread most easily is indoors, where a group of people are gathered. At this particular moment in time, when we are doing our utmost to break the transmission cycle of the virus, that means we regrettably have to make every effort to reduce gatherings. I would like to take the opportunity to acknowledge the work that the Catholic Church and other faiths have done to put in place comprehensive guidelines to protect their communities in compliance with the HSE Public Health Advice. And we hopefully will be able to move back from Level 5 in the near future. Consistent with Level 5 restrictions, however, at this time religious services have moved online. Places of worship are open for private prayer, so they aren't closed, Deputy Collins. Places of worship are open. There are exceptions for funerals where ten mourners may be in attendance and weddings whereby six guests may attend. Importantly, under the current public health regulations, ministers of religion are also permitted to travel to perform a service online, administer the sick and conduct a funeral or a wedding ceremony. Since March 2020, we have learned to live in a world with this virus. We succeeded in doing this thanks to the collective efforts of all of us who adhere to the guidelines and we can do again. I will take on board everything that was said this evening and bring back to Minister Donnelly what was said by the four TDs. Thank you. I am very disappointed. Our 1916 proclamation refers to religious and civil liberty. Where is this country going? This is a basic human right and I hope that we will be proven right like they were in Scotland. I mean, to deny people of faith, access to churches, to mass and services. It is about attending the sacraments. It is not just about going into a church on their own and praying. We have to remember that the churches handled everything very, very well. Every safety measure was put in place. There was no evidence of any clusters. So why ban public worship? I mean, it is just, it is very unfair, it is very cruel and I believe that it needs to be urgently reviewed because it is human rights and it is unnecessary to do such a thing and to deny people the access to mass and religious services, particularly at a time like this during a pandemic. We know our churches are huge buildings, well ventilated. Today here in this very hall, we had full attendance of TDs and as it was pointed out by my colleague Deputy O'Donoghue, we have churches that are equally the size of this in terms of square metres and yet people of faith are being denied. Thank you very much. I want to thank the deputies for raising this this evening. I do not want to stand here and not to show empathy or understanding to what the deputies have raised. And I do, Deputy O'Donoghue, understand about the internet. Absolutely. And that is what some of my constituency experiences as well. So, like, I think in all fairness, your points are very well made. Absolutely. All three, all four of you, your points are really made. And it is not that we are turning our back on their church. What has happened is we have decided to put public health first. That is the most Christian thing we could possibly do. And that is what this government has done. They have put public health first for the betterment of everybody. That is what they have done. But there is dialogue and the Taoiseach has met with the heads of the church. And I hope that that conversation does continue. That when we come out of where we are in level five, and you are right as well, if I can just finish here, Ciancorla, the churches did conduct themselves in a really responsible way. And that is important and it needs to be acknowledged. And, yes, they had plenty of support and they had plenty of ushers there to ensure that distance was kept, to ensure that people could be protected at best they could. But, unfortunately, we have found ourselves where we are at this moment in time. And we will, your case is put forward, as I said, I will bring it again to Deputy Donnelly, Minister Donnelly, after tonight's meeting, here tonight. But at this moment in time, government has put public health for the entire community, right across this island first. Thank you, Ciancorla.