Bríd Smith Questions Carbon Tax Use for Gas Generators

Thanks very much. Thanks, Minister, for coming along. First of all, just to say that, just so we're clear, all this extra funding is about facilitating extra gas generators for the winter 2023-2024, and we were very strongly opposed to it, mainly because I think we'd be able to approve, even if we can't do it now, but in the near future when we get the answers, that most of this is going to feed gas guzzling data centres. That is what most of this is doing. I'd like you to just address that allegation. I've actually gone to a lot of trouble to look for the actual facts on the number of data centres that are due to come onto the national grid that have already been given agreements where they're based and what level of power they'll be using. So I think we'll be proven to be right in the end that this is about facilitating extra data-centric capacity onto the national grid, which is really quite shocking. But I just wanted to restate that. But just my question for you is kind of similar to the last one on the travelling community. I'm glad to hear you're making a commitment about halting sites and how they can receive the grant funding as well. And I think that should be done very, very quickly rather than leaving it wait until the autumn or the winter, because people need that money now. But the funding for the community and residential energy efficiency comes both from direct funding and from the carbon tax. And as far as I remember, out of the planned £8 billion to be spent in overall retrofit scheme for 2030, some £5 billion is to come from the carbon tax to be ring-fenced or hypothecated or whatever the word is you use. But it seems to me that out of what you're doing now, some of it has to be coming from that extra carbon tax increase. And if you can show me that that's not the case, I'd be delighted. But I want to ask you the question directly, is there any of this funding that we are going to spend on the gas generators from the community and residential retrofit budget coming from the actual increase in the carbon tax or any of the carbon tax? Because if it is, that's a scandalous thing to the credit of this government, that it's willing to dip into a ring-fenced carbon tax fund that is now going to be spent on gas guzzling facilities and high emitters of CO2. And the other question that I have here is that, according to your own plans, the level of funding is to ramp up dramatically in the next couple of years for residential and community retrofit schemes. But your targets are heavily backloaded and promises great things in the years to come. My concern is the here and now and what is the problem with spending the money in the here and now? It's a relatively small amount of money in the bigger scale of things on energy-efficient retrofit schemes. And all of us will have experience in our constituencies of people who can't access that fund for one reason or another. There's obstacles put in their way, but they need it. And particularly in the lower economic socioeconomic groups, they really need access to funding to bring down their heating bills. And what is the problem in access to that funding now? Is it a capacity issue or can you make a commitment to them that they'll get the funding as soon as you get the companies that are able or willing to do the work that is needed? And, you know, if we can't spend the money this year, what hope do we have in the coming years when we increase the capacity and the funding for really delivering on the targets for retrofitting? Thanks, Deputy, and again, just, you know, the points have been well made in relation to the traveller community. And in terms of the increase in the carbon tax, you know, I did state, and it is the case that the carbon tax, that there is €202 million to be allocated for retrofit directly from the carbon tax in 2022. And that, you know, that's, in terms of the supplementary, there's still €252.8 million available for retrofit in 2022. So certainly funding is not the issue. There is, in relation to your last question, there is, as I said, a supply chain and a capacity issue to deliver. And that, you know, is being addressed by government. The supply chain issues hopefully will be resolved as we move into 2023. The capacity to deliver, I think, is around skills and apprenticeship and labour supply. And I think that's something that the Minister has worked on with the Department of Skills and Enterprise to ensure that we have sufficient people trained in the field to carry out these important works. So there's no doubt that the ambition is significant, but it will take time to ramp up to scale, to the scale that we require it to, to get these really important retrofits carried out as a matter of urgency over the next number of years. And sorry, just to clarify, can you tell us how much of the extra funding from the residential and community energy efficiency schemes is coming from the carbon tax? I don't have that figure to hand, if it's okay, Deputy, I'll come back to you. But some of it is coming from the carbon tax? I think so, yes. Yeah, I think so. I think it's important for us to get that figure because the big debate about carbon tax when we were, you know, devising the Climate Action Plan was around the question of it being used to benefit reduction of emissions and to benefit communities and households and for just transition and all the rest of it. But clearly it's being used for the opposite, to ramp up. No, that's not the case, Deputy. I think, you know, there's, you know, as I've given the figures there, the carbon tax is a progressive tax. It is a taxation that has been used for the deep retrofit of our housing stock as well as, you know, tackling fuel poverty issues. So I think that, you know, it is a critically important tax to aid in that progress around retrofit of our homes. Well, you've made my case, Minister, if that's what you believe and you clearly do, then why would you take funding from the carbon tax to facilitate gas generators, which would fly in the face of everything you stand for? And you've just said that some of it is coming from the carbon tax. Well, it's important that we have energy security into the future and what we're looking at is a short-term measure to tide us over the next couple of years as we ramp up renewables. And that's what we, that's what will ultimately address our fuels, our, our energy security issues, which is the significant ramp up and the ambition that we have around renewables. So there is a short-term challenge there that that government is addressing through this. And I think that's, that's really important that we do that. We could, like I just repeat the question and I know you don't have the figures in front of you, but can we get the figures for how much of that extra funding coming from the community retrofit scheme is coming directly from the carbon tax fund? We can come down, not just the increased bit of the carbon tax fund, but all of the carbon tax fund. Yeah, we can come back to you with a breakdown of figures, Deputy. Please.