Rose Conway-Walsh Demands Publication of CASELS Economic Report

Minister, when will the independent economic report on the CASELS report be published? It is widely accepted that the higher education sector has been chronically underfunded since you came into power in 2011. In the words of the Irish Universities Association, the state embarked on a sustained period of disinvestment from higher education. The publication of the European University Association Public Funding Observatory report into the 32 higher education system refers to Ireland as an extreme case where universities were confronted with strong student growth while experiencing grave funding cuts. Minister, to respond. I would not agree that the underfunding started when my party came into government. Unfortunately, the underfunding of higher education has been an intergenerational issue that needs to be rectified. But I do accept the point the deputy makes about needing a sustainable model of funding for higher education. And my department statement of strategy, which I published on the 8th of March, does contain a commitment to put in place that sustainable funding model for higher education. This is absolutely essential in ensuring that our higher education institutions can effectively meet high standards of quality and performance and achieve critical outcomes for our society and indeed for our economy. The report referred to in the deputy's question was commissioned under the European Commission Structural Reform Support Programme in November 2019. The independent consultants appointed by the Commission Indicon and LE Europe were required under the terms of reference to undertake a detailed review of three specific funding options contained in what we commonly know as the Caselles report. The consultants were also tasked by the Commission with examining the steps necessary to adapt higher education and further education training provision in Ireland to ensure an alignment between graduate output and qualifications and the current and expected future skills needs of the Irish labour market to provide the country with the right set of skills to ensure inclusive, smart and sustainable growth. The terms of reference agreed by the Commission also required the consultants to identify options for putting in place a new funding system for higher education in Ireland that would provide equity and access, efficiency in the investment of public resources and sustainability in the face of strong demographic growth. The final deliverable arising from the project has been submitted by the European Commission recently. Following its completion, my department has now commenced its examination of the analysis findings, conclusions and recommendations in order to develop proposals for government to seek to meet the commitment contained in the state of the strategy. Once the examination is concluded, the report will be submitted by me to government for consideration and will then be published. The short answer, that is the long answer, the short answer is I expect to be in a position to publish this in the autumn. I want to obviously receive the advice from my officials in terms of the analysis, prepare proposals to bring to government and then publish it and then I would expect, no doubt, a robust and comprehensive debate in these houses. Deputy. Okay Minister, I am glad it is back to you. Maybe you just confirmed when it actually came back to your department. A big part of the state divestment was based on passing the costs on to students and families, evident in the fact that we now have the highest fees in the EU. We need a sustainable funding model, as you said yourself. The CASELS report made it clear in 2016, yet here we are five years later still waiting for the report. This is absolutely urgent. Because you told me in September last year, Minister, that the report would be complete by the end of 2020. And then when I asked about it again this year, you told me it would be in March. So here you are today telling me it's going to be in the autumn and you'll forgive me if I'm a bit sceptical. This absolutely has to be done and you know the new legislation that we're scrutinising at the moment and going through. Unless that's underpinned with really serious investment, then we're not going to do the job that needs to be done. After years and years of reports, the evaluation and evaluation reports, it's beginning to look like delay tactics. So Minister, it really needs to be done now. You do know every time you say we have the highest fees in the EU, I'm going to point out that that's only because Northern Ireland left the European Union sadly as part of Brexit. And obviously the fees for students in the north where you're part of your government are a hell of a lot higher. The timeline is a matter for the European Commission. And in fairness to the European Commission, I believe they would say Covid had an impact. But the report is now with my department. Indeed, there is a number of parts to the report, I suppose, just to be fair to the deputy. But what I'm not going to do is build a shelf to stick it on and let it gather a load of dust. What I'm preparing over the summer months is a plan to bring to Cabinet. And this is a report that must be implemented. And what I can tell you, and I've said it before in this House, I don't believe in student loans. Don't believe in them. I think they're a barrier to access. I've heard, you know, lots of people say that they work on paper. I've yet to see a place that they actually work in practice. So I don't believe in that. It's not just, I wouldn't accept, I suppose, the analysis, and nothing has happened really since Cassell's. And you can see that over the period since Cassell's, expenditure allocated to higher education has increased by half a billion. In fact, more than half a billion, which is about a 40% increase. And in 2021, total planned current expenditure for the higher education sector. To get a second chance of research in the order of $1.98 billion. Yeah, Minister, but you know as well that the higher education institutions are carrying a debt of almost $1 billion, as it is now. And you know what needs to be done there, both in terms of human capital and everything else that's needed. Maybe I'd ask you on that even, you know, how many new labs have been put in since last year? Because I know the infrastructure has proven a problem in terms of meeting the demands of higher numbers. But the London economics that recently reviewed the Augur review and appraisal of the English further and higher education systems argued for a less market orientated approach to third level education in England. And I know you refer to the North, Minister, but you know there's a block grant situation there. Now you do know, and as it's honest to say, the solution to a lot of that is that we have an all island education system. And we have to work towards this. And I was pleased the other day, when the Education Committee approved me to do a report, to be a rapporteur in a report, looking at the barriers to all island education as well. I agree with you, there shouldn't be fees in North or South. Thank you, Deputy. I genuinely welcome that work that you're going to undertake, Deputy. And I was very pleased with the Taoiseach to be able to announce 40 million euro from the shared island unit, sorry, for all island research, which I think is going to make a real difference in not just in terms of investment in research, but also actually building those links, those personal relationships between individual researchers and the institutions, North and South. So I very much look forward to that work. Let me just be really clear, though, here. I accept that there is underfunding in higher education. I accept that we need a sustainable funding model. But I also want to be very clear, let me send out a very clear message. There won't just be new money for old rope. And I know you'll agree with me on that. Deputy Murphy was talking about her ability to obtain a law degree at night. I presume probably part-time at night in Wexford. If we are going to sustainably fund and properly fund higher education, it's going to work for the citizens. Not just for institutions, not just for structures and not just for university presidents. So be aware, alongside the list of funding requirements that are needed, we, the state, will also have a list of asks as to how our higher education system can be more integrated with further education, less elitist, and more agile and flexible as well. I know you'd agree with that. Thank you, Mr. Gernbach. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.