Éamon Ó Cuív Challenges Six-Year Cap on Rural Social Scheme

Minister, no doubt you recognise the exceptional contribution to society of the workers in the rural social scheme and I think it's important to remember this is not an activation scheme this is a supplemental income scheme in return for work done for small low-income farmers and fisher people. Could the minister outline the reasons that the department have put a cap of six years on the length of participation on this scheme previously as long as you were eligible under the income threshold you could stay on the scheme indefinitely because you would need the supplemental income indefinitely and society needed the work indefinitely. The rural social scheme is an income support initiative to provide part-time employment opportunities in the community and voluntary organisations for farmers or fishermen who receive certain social welfare payments and underemployed in their primary occupation of either farming or fishing. Communities benefit enormously from the skills and the talents of our local farmers and fishermen and the participants have the opportunity to improve their existing skills or indeed share develop new skills while performing this valuable work in their communities. But unfortunately, as the deputy knows, the scheme has its limitations. Apart from the fact that it has played an important and enormous role in sustaining rural communities, the participants do have the opportunity to improve themselves and so therefore make themselves ready for other employment opportunities. In Tandon, communities benefit obviously from their skills and their local talents and actually indeed many of the projects up and down the country have actually been performed by RSS participants. There's a beautiful church in Roscommon that has been reorganised and rebuilt and it's looking absolutely fabulous. But in the last number of years I've secured extra resources to add extra places in 2018 and 2017 to add places to the RSS scheme. But the problem is that if we leave people on it indefinitely it locks other people out and it doesn't allow them to actually take any participation in the scheme. So scheme participants who commenced on the scheme prior to the 1st of February 2017 can remain on the scheme. So anybody that probably would have engaged and participated in the scheme when you had introduced it, Deputy, will be allowed to remain on it for as long or as indefinitely as they want to. But in order not to lock people out, because as you're well aware it's one of the probably highest rated participation of any of our schemes, and because we do have a cap of the places we introduced a six year participation limit for people to come in, stay on the scheme, reskill and redevelop it and make themselves available for other employment opportunities in the community. Thank you very much Mr Deputy councillor Dr Senior can you tell me at the moment the number of places available on the scheme? The number of participants on the scheme and the number of people on waiting lists throughout the country to go on the scheme? Because we know there's a very finite number of people in receipt of either pharmacists or fish assist. And therefore, Minister, it would appear to me that this is actually a false reason, because to make the places available on demand would require a very, very small increase. So can you give me those figures? The number on the scheme, the number waiting to go on the scheme, and the number of places that you've approved for the scheme. I might not be able to answer all of your questions, but as of the 29th of November last week, there are some 3,231 participants and 138 supervisors in our RSS scheme. The level of funding allocated to the scheme for this year is £53.11 million. You are right, it is and was originally established as an income support scheme. But because of the way the scheme is developed, the way training is involved, and people can reskill and redevelop the talents that they come to us with and enhance them, it allows people and affords them the opportunity to be able to go and look for new work opportunities in their communities and their environment. And I think if we were to continue along the guise as it was originally established, an RSS participant could spend their entire working life on the scheme, first of all resulting in very limited turnover of the places, but literally no opportunity for new entrants. And I do not think that is what was ever envisaged, and it certainly is not what is envisaged going forward. And whilst it might not be a pure activation scheme, insofar as some of our other schemes are, the aim of the people on the scheme is not to get a job at the end of it, but it very much is to help them skill up, retrain, whilst they are offering their valuable services in the community, so that they can have a broader approach to maybe looking for work thereafter. Minister, I hear this skill up. Remember, these are active farmers. They are highly skilled people. And that was one thing that amazed me when I went to live and work permanently in rural Ireland, was the level of skill of local farmers in so many facets of work. But for some of them, for all sorts of family reasons, the combination of the scheme providing absolutely vital services at a very, very small cost to the state, that otherwise you would have to pay a lot more money to provide, and the farming keeps them fully occupied, and they are not available to go and take full-time positions. So I think it is patronising to talk all the time as if these people were in some way underskilled. Minister, if people want to progress into full-time jobs, they will. If they can get them, and if they are free to take them, they will take them. Minister, can you answer the question? You said that there are 3,231 participants. What is the ceiling or the total number of places available on the scheme at the moment? And secondly, when you look at this at the micro level, there are some areas in the country that have availability of places on the scheme, but because of the six-year rule, when it does clip in, they will not be able to fill the places. Minister, when I made the increase in the 2018 budget, it capped the available places at 3,350. I have just told you two seconds ago that the participations at the moment are 3,231. This is one of our most successful schemes. Far from being patronising with respect to your deputy, what I am trying to say to you is that some of these people are the highest skilled workers that we have in our community, but they are also only part-time farming and part-time fishing. And so therefore it is open to them to have another part-time job outside and above the state providing an income support for them. And so absolutely no way was it ever intended to have people dependent for the rest of their life on welfare. I don't think that was ever envisaged by anybody, and it is certainly not envisaged by the scheme right now. And that is why the cap of six years was put on it, so that people could come in and dip in and dip out at different periods of their life that they could not avail of other job opportunities that were available in the state. And so far from being patronising, this is a really valuable scheme. I realise that you established it and I give you the credit for doing that. It is one of our better schemes. But what we will absolutely do not do in the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection is create welfare dependency. That defeats every single purpose that we have got. Okay, thank you very much indeed.