Éamon Ó Cuív demands swift return of prison visits and services

I would like to thank the Minister for coming into the House to listen to what I have to say and I think we have all have found the last 15 months difficult. Those who couldn't get out and about, all the people who confined to their homes, found it particularly difficult. But I think we have to try and imagine what it is like to be locked up in prison during that period. Every small freedom that was left to you within the prison had to be curtailed and during that period there were virtually no prison visits and when prison visits did take place in very short windows where visits were allowed and most of the time they were not, were very, very constrained in time and in numbers. I do commend the prison service, the prison staff and the prisoners for the huge cooperation in ensuring that there was a minimal amount of COVID within our prison system. That was a huge achievement but at a huge personal cost particularly to the prisoners in terms of the limited opportunities they have in the prisons. Video visits were good but I think we have all found out that the Zoom meeting is no substitute for in-person meetings. And I think we need to take a seriously humane view of where we are now. Belatedly vaccines are now being rolled out across the board I understand in the prisons. And this needs to be completed expeditiously. But we now need to look at the family visit issue. We now need to be generous in what we do. We need to balance the psychological rights and the psychological good and the general wellbeing good of people with the other risk factors that we know that are there. And of course the large number for example of parents of prisoners who have been vaccinated is a big help on this road. What we need Minister is this expeditious opening up of prison visits as we can possibly get. We need immediately firm dates on which this is going to happen. We need to be generous in the modalities. In other words the length of visits, the number of people who can visit etc. I would point to how successfully we opened up nursing home visits quite a considerable time ago. And there we were talking about a group that were generally way more vulnerable than the prison population. I would also like to say that I was disappointed to hear last week that religious services have not recommenced in the prisons as they have in the outside world. And I can't understand this I have to say because for those who wish to attend religious services it is important to them. Because they are in prison obviously religious services take place in a very controlled atmosphere. And I think it is absolutely necessary that an announcement will be made today that religious services would once again be available irrespective of what people's faiths are as they were pre-Covid. I want to thank Deputy Cui for raising this issue and the Irish Prison Service. They fully appreciate how important religious services and contact with family and friends are to people in custody. And Minister Naughton wishes to assure you that they are committed to the return of both as soon as it is considered safe to do so. You are right Deputy about over 15 months of difficulty and it is very difficult to be locked up and curtailed and constrained. And I suppose you have said people want to balance the psychological rights with other rights and it is a difficult time for all. And as you may be aware at the start of the pandemic the prison service introduced a Visio visit system which has allowed families to continue to support those in custody. Additional phone calls were also facilitated and I understand from the Minister that feedback on the use of this system has been generally positive. However, I am pleased to inform the Deputy that the service is currently developing a new framework for the unwinding of prison restrictions. which is informed by the recent government plan for reopening our society set out in resilience and recovery the path ahead. The new framework which will be published later this month by the prison service will set out a phased unwinding of the restrictions and the plan for resumption of visits and religious services will be included in this framework. Although the unwinding of prison restrictions and resumption of religious services and visits are a priority for the service, it is also subject to a number of critical factors including the need to maintain infection control measures, the rollout of the prison vaccination program which you alluded to Deputy for both prisoners and staff and the rollout of the community vaccination program. I know that the Deputy will appreciate that the service must take into account of the risks of COVID transmission in a congregated section, and the fact that a large cohort of those in custody and staff working in our prisons have not been vaccinated when reviewing the unwinding of restrictions. It is good to see that the vaccinations are beginning to be ramped up and I hope that happens much more quickly. Revised guidelines and controls for the safe celebration of religious services have been developed and approved, and chaplains have continued to work in all prison establishments during lockdowns providing important spiritual and pastoral support services. A date for the resumption of religious services and in-person visits will be agreed as part of the wider plan for unwinding COVID-19 restrictions in prisons later this month. When this is finalised, it will be communicated widely. I hope this clarifies the current situation for the Deputy but again I would like to thank him for raising this issue. There are a lot of issues and as we said prisons have a lot of issues that need to be dealt with. Thank you. I have to say on a number of fronts I am very disappointed with the reply. First of all, as I said, the rollout of the vaccine in the prison has been very deferred, even though as you point out they are very congregated settings. And obviously the biggest risk was that the infection would come into the prison inadvertently through people who come into the prison every day providing services including prison staff and all of the other services within the prison, many of which were curtailed during the lockdown. Now I would hope that now that the vaccines have started that it would be seen through to completion for every person in the prison who wants a vaccine and also for prison staff totally expeditiously. Anything else would be unsatisfactory. Allowing for that I think I pointed out a model where we got a much better practice and a much more expeditious reopening of visits and that was with the nursing homes where you were talking in the main about people who were mainly in the older cohort and who were very, very vulnerable. And we know that statistically. And still we were able to open visits up reasonably soon after the vaccination. Now to tell me after all these months that we are drawing up a plan, if I hear of another big master plan being drawn up, you know it is most frustrating. What the prisoner wants are dates when they are going to be able to see their loved ones. What the loved ones want is dates that they can see the members of their families that are in prisons. It is not, you know, it is going to happen sometime and it might happen to be on a phased basis. It is not good enough. In relation to religious services similarly there is no excuse. There is absolutely no excuse for not having religious services. We all know how safe they have been in the general populace. We all know how controlled that situation is. And there is no reason. And I think it is totally unfair to be putting an extra burden of caution in relation to the prisons when in society we balance the other human needs of people in a much fairer way. I would like to thank the Deputy again for raising his concerns. I am pleased to inform the Deputy that a vaccination programme has commenced on the 9th of June on a prison by prison basis with vaccinations being administered by the National Ambulance Service supported by the Irish Prison Service healthcare teams to all prisoners and unvaccinated staff under 40 years of age. I would also like to stress that Minister Nocton understands that this has been a very difficult time for both prisoners and their families. I understand the impact that the loss of family contact has had on prisoners. You have talked about nursing homes. My mother is in a nursing home and we have had the same issues. It has been a lot of reassuring to see them opened up. But there are still difficulties in visiting as well. However, the IPA Prison Service has worked tirelessly to safeguard prisoners and staff. This continues to be the primary consideration. The Irish Prison Service must continue to ensure that the prison population is protected from the virus and it is continuing to make use of alternative means of keeping prisoners and their families connected. It is intention of the Prison Service to retain the video visits for families post-COVID. So families will have the option of video or physical visits. And I believe this will be beneficial to families, especially those who need to travel long distances. In closing, the Minister of Justice has asked me to reassure the Deputy that the new framework for unwinding prison restrictions, which, as I said, will be published later this month by the Irish Prison Service, will provide clarity for both prisoners and their families as to when visits and religious services can begin again. Thank you.