Kathleen Funchion presses on childcare fees ahead of budget

Thanks Cahirleach, thanks Minister as well, so my question is probably a follow on from our motion the other night but it's in relation to fees for childcare in early years and if you can make a comment on what priorities your department has in relation to the upcoming budget and fees and reducing fees for parents and I'll come back in then later, thanks. I'm very conscious of the real cost for parents that they experience in terms of childcare and I'm absolutely determined to address this issue and I have been since I became Minister and in the context of this year's budget I've stated publicly that early learning and childcare is a key priority for me and in particular I've indicated that I will be seeking additional investment to ensure that providers can operate sustainably and that their employees can benefit from improved pay and conditions. improve accessibility for children and as you said improve affordability for parents and as you said improve affordability for parents and I believe that early learning and childcare is a public good and it brings benefits to society as a whole and the importance of these services has become all the more evident during the pandemic we've just gone through and we need additional public investment in order to fully realise the ambitions that we have for this sector and with this in mind the programme for government commits to fulfilling the commitment in First Five that would include an investment target of £1 billion being invested in childcare by 2028. I'm pleased that an expert group has been working with my department to help guide future decisions about public investment in early learning and childcare and the expert group is comprised of national and international experts who have significant experience in the area of early learning learning and childcare and childcare and the systems it operates and its funding and it's an independently chaired group the group has undertaken in depth a program of research and analysis they've gauged in an extensive and detailed stakeholder consultation and the group has commissioned a series of reports examining the various issues and particularly looking at the international comparisons approaches to reducing costs to parents and mechanisms to control fees internationally The report of the expert group is currently being drafted and is on track to be submitted to me in November I've met with the chair of the group and I've been briefed on its progress and this has very much informed my department's bid in the context of this year's budget estimates So I'll be dealing with a number of closely related questions on childcare costs and investment this morning I hope to have an opportunity to expand further on these issues obviously I can't give the details of the budget at this stage but look I know it's something that you deputy and other deputies have a real concern about I welcome a lot what you're saying there that it is a priority and also that you see it as a public good because that is the model that we need to get to in terms of our childcare and early years sector it does need to be seen exactly what it is which is an excellent public service that everybody relies on and ultimately that benefits children that has to be actually at the heart of everything that we do I know that you're aware of this but we do have some of the highest fees in the world and even in my own constituency which is largely rural there are urban areas as well but in the two counties of Carl and Uncle Kenny for even one child you can pay in a region of 650 per month I know probably some people in Dublin will think that doesn't sound too bad but you have to bear in mind the area if you have a second child and like there is people you know trying to space out exactly when they'll have their children and everything based on on childcare costs which is you know it's crazy really to think that we're in that situation in this day and age so really I suppose we're taking the opportunity in advance of the budget to ask again that there would be something in relation to the budget for this sector Thanks Co Heerlach Thanks Deputy, well look you're absolutely right in terms of the issue of it being an investment in early learning and childcare being a public good and it's in recognition of that the very substantial investment has been undertaken by the government to support the sector during Covid including the EWSS payments which are 34 million every month every month being invested into childcare services across the country but we've also recognised the wider issues in terms of the very low rates of pay that staff receive and that's why we've introduced the JLC which is an important first step towards addressing that issue but you rightly raised the issue of the impact on fees and the impact on fees on families who are struggling and I think it is important to see all these issues the issues of affordability the issues of sustainability for services the issue of pay and the issue for quality they're all linked and we have to look at them together and whatever proposals I bring forward I will try and link all those three issues and the overarching issue of quality for children because they are linked and we can't deal with one without dealing with the others Thanks Minister, I agree that they're linked, that's actually an argument I consistently make that you know the fees are an issue for parents the wages are an issue for those working in the sector and then obviously sustainability is an issue for providers and I think in fairness to the vast majority of providers a lot of them started out with maybe you know a small business maybe run from home they're mainly run by women and then all of a sudden you know the whole system has really gone nearly insane in terms of paperwork and regulation and nobody has an issue with regulation particularly in relation to children but you do need to have what I always find myself saying in here which there's a lack of is a common sense approach I know one of my questions further down is in relation to kind of those working in the early years, the early years educators so I'm not going to get into that aspect now but they are linked and that's why they need to be seen together and I suppose that the last comment is just to say that I do see what you're saying is in your programme for government but there's been one budget, we're coming up to a second budget, we need to start seeing that investment now next week Thanks Well you rightly identify the huge role that providers, many of whom are very small and individual businesses and as you say primarily led by women and the passion for education and the passion for care of the children and babies who are in their care that they have and I think what we've seen in the past is where investment has been put into supporting parents in reducing fees the NCS which is a very good system, it has its flaws and look I know we discussed them in the context of the debate we had earlier this week but where the NCS, where additional money has been put in there, it has subsequently often been wiped out in terms of fee increases and in many cases those fee increases are understandable in the context of an individual service that is struggling that has expensive bills that has to pay or is seeking to pay its staff so it's looking at all these things in the round is what's really important and that's why it's both an issue of the investment and the investment is key but the additional regulation around that investment is also really important