Kathleen Funchion warns ERO failure could forfeit €150m

This question is to ask yourself, Minister, the impact that there would be on core funding for the early years sector in the event that no employment regulation order is agreed, and if only one employment regulation order is agreed, or if a graduate premium is not agreed, and if you can make a statement on that matter. Thanks, Minister. Thank you, Laskin-Courley. Good morning, Deputy. Core funding is designed to support a range of objectives, including the drawing up of an employment regulation order, an ERO, to determine minimum rates of pay for workers, as well as supporting career pathways in graduate employment. Of the €221 million core funding budget, approximately two-thirds is intended to contribute to improved pay rates across different categories of staff. This portion of the budget cannot be made available without assurances that this funding will be channelled towards achieving this intended objective. Accordingly, a precondition of the funding agreement is that core funding will only come into effect and is contingent upon EROs being in effect to cover all roles across the sector, as defined in the Early Years Services Joint Labour Committee Establishment Order. In the event that there is no ERO or an ERO that only covers one role in the sector, core funding cannot proceed. If there are no EROs, the entire €150 million allocated for improved pay and conditions under core funding risks being forfeited. In the event of a single ERO that covers just one role, a very substantial portion of the €138 million allocated for improved pay and conditions under core funding risks being forfeited. The value of funding forfeited will depend on the ERO agreed. In the event that there are EROs without graduate premium rates, the additional €10 million allocated for graduate premiums under core funding risks being forfeited and alternative arrangements for funding for graduates will be put in place. But a return to the previous higher capitation payment is not envisaged. The failure to agree graduate premium rates will significantly undermine the development of further policy initiatives to support the employment of staff with higher levels of qualifications, given the limited assurances that State funding will be channelled towards achieving this intended objective. I am fully supportive of improved pay and conditions for this valued workforce, and I achieved significant investment from Government and Budget 2022 for this purpose. I urge the JLC to continue its negotiations to agree with EROs for all grades in the sector, including minimum rates for graduate lead educators and graduate managers. I think we were actually in agreement in relation to this matter because, as you know, it is an issue that I would feel strongly about as well in relation to the workers who, as we all know, do just incredible work and many do have degrees and are graduates. Over the last while we have been visiting a number of early years facilities and you actually see an awful lot of people going on to do their masters even. So, I mean, the level of qualification and commitment to the sector from the workforce is incredible. And I suppose for a long time I would have advocated that there needs to be improvement in wages, terms and conditions and that we should see like a wage scale. So, while I would probably have preferred the introduction of a wage scale, I do well, I do support the JLC and those talks and I do want to see that that come to a successful conclusion. We definitely need to get that over the line. I suppose a lot of people are wondering what happens if we get to September and there isn't agreement. Where does that go then? Is it extended? Or maybe you could touch on that in the remarks. Thanks, Minister. Thanks very much, Deputy. The ERO is the only game in town. This is the one mechanism available under our existing industrial relations mechanism where the very substantial additional funding that government announced in last year's budget designed to ensure, as you said, that better pay for our fantastic childcare professionals designed to ensure that they receive that. The only way to guarantee that is through an ERO. And I have heard and no one across the sector from the employer or the employee side have been able to suggest a better mechanism. So my focus is on providing the money. We, the Government, have provided the money and it is now up to the various partners to bring about those agreements on the various rates. But I think it is important to say that to support our workforce we have to do more than rates of pay. There has to be clear pathways, clear progression frameworks. And that is why we have the Workforce Development Plan, Nurturing Skills, which sets out additional supports, additional continued professional development and funding for that. So we continue to allow childcare professionals who are on the initial entry rate to advance further in their careers. Thank you. Thanks. I would 100% agree with that. I think it is very frustrating for those who are working in that sector, I suppose, and for so many years they have been what they would feel is undervalued. Because, you know, I mean, everyone can say how great you are, but I suppose we all know that the actual action of having a pay increase is really the best way of illustrating that. And it is the same for like, yeah, we definitely want to see a wage scale so that people can progress. And in relation to the continuous professional development, that is, I think, a key part. And I think one of the things that come up regularly is how, let us say in our school system, you know, that there is maybe in-service days for teachers, but we do not have that in the early year sector. So I do think we definitely need to move to that. And I support the JLC talks and the employment regulation order. I suppose I just fear, you know, with the best will on the side of the workers, if they can't get that over the line, what happens then? Is it like the funding is fully gone? Or, you know, if you know what I'm trying, the point I'm trying to make, that will that be extended if there may be halfway through? Or there seems to be some sort of progress? Or when will a decision on that be made? Because I'm also conscious that we're in July, and I know that hopefully this will be done by September. Thanks, Minister. Well, again, my focus and the department's focus is on supporting the delivery of the ERO, and I don't want to second-guess that process. I genuinely don't know what is a way that we can as effectively support better pay for staff without an ERO being in place. And that's why I think all our focuses, and I welcome your support for the ERO, has to be on that particular mechanism. Because you're right, staff have felt undervalued. And when you see what they are being paid, what many are being paid, they are undervalued. And that's certainly one of the things when I've met childcare professionals in my own constituency, when I've been travelling around the country. And that idea of having an entry rate at the ERO has set it at €13 an hour. It's more than the living wage, and it's a start, but that's a starting rate. And to have additional rates where someone has a graduate qualification, where someone is a room leader, where someone is a deputy manager. But also the wider supports, the continued professional development and financial support for that, as set out in the Workforce Development Plan Nurturing Skills.