Kathleen Funchion seeks clarity on DSGBV leave pay rate

I wanted to speak to this group of amendments too, mainly 3 and 4, I think it is to be specific. I was looking for clarity as well, Minister, because I know there was some discussion in relation to this in the Seanad and there seems to be some amendments accepted that would have been put forward by Senator Lynne Rouhan and Senator Alice Mary Higgins. I just wanted to see where exactly this is in relation to the rate of pay because obviously we know about the financial hardship and we have discussed that in various forms, but I do think that one thing that maybe isn't highlighted all the time is a lot of women in this situation and a lot of organisations such as Women's Aid or any other domestic violence refuges that deal with women, first of all, sometimes when women make the initial call they obviously might take a few phone calls and attempts to actually leave the situation and I know that some of the advice given is to kind of prepare a bag, you know, like kind of a getaway bag as such for want of better words and in those situations obviously in certain relationships women are being monitored by their either ex-partner or current partner and they are trying to get away from that situation. So one of the concerns I would have with the rate of pay not being what your actual wage pay is, that if you are being monitored and that person notices the difference, like if they are actually logging into your online bank or seeing your pay slips, we all know that shouldn't be happening but that is the reality particularly in relation to coercive control, and they are seeing that there is a difference in your pay and that kind of sparks some, you know, obviously negative and unwanted attention when you are trying to get out of that situation. Now, I don't know if some of this has been addressed in the Shannad debate because obviously we weren't at that debate, but I'm just wondering can we get clarity on that and has that point been taken on board because I think women's aid did a really good kind of speaking point, which I'm sure they gave to you as well in relation to the debate in the Shannad about this particular situation with the rate of pay. I don't think as well we should be comparing it to sick leave. It is something very, very different and I think it should be the same rate of pay that you are getting in your job. Thanks, Leske and Carla. I think it is important to note that the proposals that we are bringing forward and hopefully will be passed into legislation after today's debate have been welcomed. They have been welcomed by NGOs and organisations working in this sector. They have been welcomed by the trade unions, some of whom have campaigned for this for a long time. There is a strong welcome for this and a number of deputies have referred to the universal standard, but that is among maybe four or five countries who have adopted this on a national basis. When we adopt this, a national statutory paid DSGBV leave will be among the first countries in the world doing this. Notwithstanding the right of deputies to argue for more and improve and better, that needs to happen, but I think it is important to remember that we are joining a very small group of countries that have taken this important step, not that we are somehow out of line with masses of countries in terms of the provision of paid leave in this area. I just think it is important to make that point. This is a very significant and progressive step. Very few countries in Europe have taken it, it has been taken in New Zealand, it has been taken at a provincial level in a number of parts of Canada and a number of parts of Australia, but on a national level, and we are legislating on a national level here, so I will just make that point in terms of the five days. In terms of the rate of pay, the legislation does not set what the rate of DSGBV leave will be. It sets out a process for how that rate will be established. During the Shannad debate organisations raised concerns about the criteria that were being used, and being honest, they were very much modelled on the criteria for determining the rate of sick pay. In hearing that, we have made changes. We have taken out some of those very high-level look at the macroeconomic situation, we have deleted those, and we have substituted, and just to read it, it is amendment number seven, substitute the following. This is one of the considerations that the Minister has to look at in terms of making the rate of pay. Expert opinion, including that of victim service organisations, research and national and international reports relating to the matters specified at paragraph A to C that the Minister considers relevant. We deliberately inserted that to recognise the importance that on an issue as significant of what the rate of DSGBV leave pay will be, that the voices and the views of those who are most attuned to this area, most attuned to the impact of domestic violence on people in the workplace, are part of the Minister's considerations. Now, there is a process, so I cannot give you the result. A process will kick off now once this legislation is passed and signed, but we have made these changes deliberately on hearing the concerns that were raised, and I feel that is probably as far as I can go in providing reassurance, other than to say the core goal, and you spoke of this, Deputy Carnes, the core thinking behind this legislation is to protect victims from poverty, and I am very cognisant of that in terms of working to pass this legislation and now my actions in terms of implementing it.