Kathleen Funchion Urges Update on Surrogacy and AHR Bill

Thanks very much. I would also like to thank my colleague Deputy Cullinan for giving me one of his priority questions. I am anxious to ask what is the update in relation to the surrogacy legislation. There was a great announcement, and I mentioned this in our last round of questions to the children's minister, but as he is not a lead minister, he was limited in what information he had. Families are really anxious to know what stage that legislation is at, what is the timeframe for it, and when we can see that coming to committee. Thank you. Yeah, thanks very much, Deputy. It's something that's very important to me too, and we're pushing very hard on this. We would have had the AHR… Mr. Minister, I think you're grouping this with 57, equally in the name of Deputy Kathleen Function, as I understand it. It's the same question. Oh, it's the same question. One through priority. Okay. Thank you, Cullinan. So, the AHR legislation in and of itself would have been passed by now. It would have been in operation by now. I think with broad political agreement, we paused it to make sure that we could bring in some very, very substantial amendments at committee stage around surrogacy. So, in mid-December of last year, I got government approval for the policy approach in respect of the regulation of international surrogacy. You'll be aware that we have accepted nearly all of the recommendations in the report. There were a few which the officials came back and said didn't work. We've discussed them with various members of the group and the advocacy groups. People broadly agreed with them. Some of them were technical. Some of them were around protecting the surrogate or protecting the surrogate or protecting the intending parents as well or protecting the child. I don't think there was any controversy around the proposed changes. So, the formal drafting process by the Office of Parliamentary Council, that's being done with three departments. My department, Justice and children, equality, disability, integration and youth, is well underway. It's a really comprehensive piece of drafting that's going on. As I've said to colleagues in the Dáil and in the Shannad, I don't think there was any controversy around the proposed changes. essentially, what we've asked the three departments to do is to put together heads of bill and then detailed legislation that, to be honest, the formal drafting process by the Office of Parliamentary Council has been done with three departments. My department, Justice and children, equality, disability, integration and youth, is well underway. It's a really comprehensive piece of drafting that's going on. As I've said to colleagues in the Dáil and in the Shannad, and to the advocacy groups, essentially what we've asked the three departments to do is to put together heads of bill and then detailed legislation that, to be honest, normally probably would take several years to put together. And we've asked them to put it together in a very short period of time. And they have. I was really happy for us to be able to go to government before Christmas and get full approval. So the drafting is well underway. I'll need to bring those final detailed amendments essentially back to Cabinet for approval. Then what I do is I refer to the Health Committee. I'll ask them. That then will be in the hands of the Health Committee. I would imagine, based on how committed everybody is too, that the Health Committee will find the time as quickly as possible. So it is crucial that the final detailed provisions are robust. They do need to be able to withstand rigorous scrutiny. For example, the range of complexities involved, the rights of the various parties involved. It is entirely possible that aspects of this will be challenged by different parties. It does need to stand up to scrutiny. It is intended that the new parts as well as the recognition of certain past surrogacy arrangements will be introduced. So we're going to do both the retrospective piece and then the future looking piece. I just want to reiterate my commitment to ensuring that both the goal for providing the route of formal recognition of past surrogacy arrangements, or surrogacy arrangements in other jurisdictions, is achieved, and that a robust regulatory framework for AHR more broadly is put in place. The AHR bill has been slightly lost in the very understandable focus on surrogacy, but actually, apart from the surrogacy element, the AHR bill is really important as well. That provides the legislative framework, for example, for IVF and a lot of the things we're looking to bring in later on this year. So I guess in short, Deputy, my hope and my intention is that we will all be debating it in this House in this summer term. I'd love to have it through all the Houses and signed off by the President before the Dáil goes into recess. Thank you very much. Well, I'm delighted to hear that your hope is that it's going to be before the summer recess, because that's what all of our hope is. Just to say as well that like the AHR bill, I suppose, it went to its pre-legislate stage in 2017. So before there was ever a surrogacy committee, that was there for five years. So just in case, you know, there's any, I don't think it's your intention, but surrogacy certainly, it wasn't the delay to the AHR bill, just to make that clear. I'm really anxious for parents who are waiting on the retrospective element of this. And I had asked the children's minister, is there a way of dealing with the retrospective piece now, given that we know we're going to be bringing in this legislation. And I do want to acknowledge that I'm delighted to hear that the government have taken on the recommendations of the surrogacy committee, because that committee worked very hard. And the recommendations, I think, were excellent. So that was good news. But I suppose for everybody now, there was a great day in December, and here we are the end of April. So if you're saying that you are hoping that it will be fully passed, and it's what you want to see, I hope that that would be pushed now by government, that we will have this in before the summer recess. And I'll come back in in the further minute. Thanks. Thanks, Sepi. Yes, I would love to see that happen. It will depend on the time that the health committee is able to give over to this. I'm very conscious the health committee has a huge amount of work on its plate. But hopefully they will give over the time, and I'll get it over to them for their review shortly enough. In terms of the retrospective element, we need to do it as part of the legislation. It's really important. No more than yourself and many other colleagues, I've met the parents, I've met the mums, I've met the dads, I've met the kids. And it is going to be a great day when we can pass this legislation and quite rightly recognise these children and recognise their rights and recognise their parents' rights. It's going to be a really important day, and it is going to happen. And we will do it this year. And I know people have been waiting a long time. We need to do it as part of the legislation so that it's fully robust and on a statutory basis. Thanks very much, Minister. Two other points. I want to particularly mention Brian and Cathy Egan, who are in my own constituency. They are from my hometown of Callan and Kilkenny, who are currently in the High Court in relation to this issue. And they are an example of a family who are very courageously putting their story out there in a very difficult time in their lives. And I suppose it just shows that not everybody has the time. And that's why I'm going to keep trying to raise it at every possibility. As soon as I know it's in the Health Committee, we'll be on to them, asking very nicely if they can push it along. In relation to the retrospection, I always chance to ask and can it be dealt with now because, as the phrase goes, if you don't ask, you'll never know. But when the legislation is passed, do you expect that the retrospection people can then go for their parental orders? There's some concern amongst the groups that that might be delayed if there's an establishment of an agency for people who are going to be doing surrogacy into the future, which is understandable. But in particular, the retrospective, will that be signed off on as soon as the legislation is up and running? Thanks. Thanks, Stephanie. The Eagans were in with us as part of the group when we announced this, and it really was a great honour to meet them. Yes, is the answer to your question. Will the retrospective piece require the new agency to be set up? No. The way we're very deliberately putting the legislation together such that parents will be able to go for court orders, and it will not require the agency to be set up because the agency, I think to your point, Deputy, the agency is going to take time to set up. It is going to take time to hire in all of the staff, and then there's a bunch of regulations that they'll be involved in creating as well. So critically, the court, as soon as this legislation is passed and signed by the President, there may be some procedural issues that have to be put in place. No doubt there are. But once that's done, it will be a matter of parents going and receiving court orders under the new Act. Thank you. Thank you.