Marian Harkin urges urgent use of private hospital capacity

Thank you, Cairn Comhairle. Thank you, Minister. Well, I want to raise the same issue as Deputy Matty McGrath has raised with you, Minister. Perhaps not quite the same level of fire in the belly, as it were, but it's just as heartfelt. And I raised it with you last week and about three weeks ago with the Taoiseach. Look, we know at the time the contract was put in place with the private hospitals, it was the right thing to do. In fact, it was the only thing to do. But circumstances have changed. And while we know we could be hit with a second or third wave, nonetheless, we have put structures in place to help us to contain, hopefully, a spike if it were to occur. So, you yourself said a few moments ago that when circumstances have changed, you have to show the intelligence around flexibility. Minister, it's beyond urgent that we put in place a system that maximises the capacity in both our public and our private hospitals. I really get a sense, not from you, but from others, that there's real intransigence here, and that it's about marking territory, and it's to some extent about ideology. We just want a system that works for people. So, you know, we have many reasons for this. But the figures that came out today, Minister, which talked about the medical background to those who have, unfortunately, died from COVID, tells us something. It tells us that almost 84% of them had underlying conditions. Now, that term underlying conditions strikes terror into the hearts of people, but it has a human face. It's about heart issues. It's about diabetes. It's about cancer, etc. And those chronic conditions require ongoing treatment and management. And many people are not getting that, which means that they are at greater risk of COVID if they contract it. And also, think about all those people who are on waiting lists now, waiting for that biopsy, waiting for that urgent surgery, knowing that if they don't get it, they end up with an underlying condition. So I said to you last week, it's like a slow car crash. And I'm asking you again, Minister, to do whatever you can, because you're the man in charge. You're the person in charge. And I'm asking you to intervene, to make sure that patients, non-COVID and COVID, can access the maximum capacity in our hospitals. Thank you. Thanks to Deputy Harkin for raising this very important matter. And thank you also to her for being very honest and truthful. It's a view that I share that there was no alternative option when we were looking at what was happening in other countries, other than to make sure we had every bed capacity, every bed possible, every ventilator possible, every ICU bed possible. And indeed, that's what everybody in this house was rightly questioning at the time. And thank God we secured that capacity. And even better, thank God we didn't need to use it all. That is a sign of success. I share your concern that this can't be about ideology. This is not about anyone becoming nigh Bevan. And this is not about advancing the legitimate issues that this house may wish to advance in terms of sláinte care and the likes in, let's call it in peace time. And this can't be about that. This has to be about showing pragmatism and common sense and getting the best outcome. I do share that view. So just to be clear, the current arrangement is effectively an arrangement for five months with a break clause after three months. And that break clause comes in at the end of June. So the end of June represents three months. We have an automatic right to extend for a further two months, which will bring you to the end of August. I do need to say this though. Government is going to consider this matter on Friday. There are two things that we need to try and achieve. One, we will need to have more capacity for that potential second wave. And it's a very, very real prospect. And I wouldn't like to be the minister back here who gave up that capacity and then starts looking for it again in a second wave. The second thing, though, is we do need more capacity now to deliver non-COVID care as well. So you talk very passionately about people with cancer and the likes and in the limited time available to me. We are now seeing a lot of public health services beginning to be provided with the private capacity. So we've seen cancer services for public patients move from St. Vincent's Public Hospital, St. Vincent's Private, from Tullamore to the Hermitage and so on and so forth. So it's about providing the potential for a COVID surge capacity that we would need. But also the fact that if we're to continue even just providing the normal health service, inadequate as it is in terms of wait times, we will need more capacity. Trying to get that balance right is what we have to try and do over the next few days and government will consider this again on Friday.