Deputy Mary Lou McDonald- speech from 7 May 2025

let's dive into the discussions shaping the nation. First a warm word of welcome to Inver College from Cartman Cross in County Monaghan, the alma mater of Deputy McCarthy, so you have a lot to answer for. You're very welcome. Minister, government is all over the place as to what happens with the 430,000 euro salary of NAMA's CEO Brendan McDonough when the agency is wound up at the end of this year. One arm of government doesn't know what the other is doing and it's been contradiction after contradiction. When your plan was to appoint Mr McDonough as your new housing czar, the Taoiseach told the doll repeatedly that he would retain his 430 grand salary in the role and Michal Martin was adamant that this would be the case and that this wouldn't cost the taxpayer any additional money because he would be seconded and the salary is already being paid from the public purse. But then we had the Minister for Finance, Pascal Donoghue, directly contradicted Taoiseach. He told us that Mr McDonough won't retain that eye-watering salary when he returns to his role within the NTMA. He said that only a specific number of NAMA executives will retain their terms when the transfer of personnel takes place. And then we had your good self in the middle of this fiasco and this is where it gets very Fianna Fawley. As Minister for Finance, you of course drafted the legislation making it clear that all NAMA executives will go to the resolution unit in the NTMA and that therefore all of them will retain their pay and conditions. This must include Mr McDonough and his 430,000 euro pay packet. You will also recall, Minister, that the officials who came to the Oireachtas Finance Committee in September were very, very clear that Mr McDonough is retaining his salary. So the labyrinth of contradiction prompts people to ask what the hell is going on here. People catch the stink of something rotten. And of course there has not been a peep from government on the fact that Mr McDonough, your once preferred candidate for housing czar, is renting out a house here in Dublin for 10,000 euros a month or rather 10,000 euros a week in the middle of a housing crisis. So you desperately try to save face and scramble for cover because at the heart of this controversy is the instinct of Fianna Fawley and Fine Gael to keep political insiders on side, to preserve the way things work and to feather the nests of the golden circle. Your big problem, Minister, is that nobody trusts Fianna Fawley and Fine Gael to tell the truth. You were caught fibbing about housing delivery figures during the election. You were in the middle of that. Caught out with the false election promise to provide an extra one billion on water infrastructure. And of course you spent the last few months moving heaven and earth to protect your grubby deal with Michael Lowry. So when you do business by misleading, you can't really blame people for not believing a single word that comes from the government's mouth. So Minister, you drafted the legislation that will allow Mr McDonagh to keep his jaw-dropping salary. You have it down in fact as priority legislation. So I'm going to ask straight questions and hopefully you might give a straight answer. Who, Minister, is telling the truth about Mr McDonagh's €430,000 salary? Is it the Taoiseach or is it the Minister for Finance? And can we have some honesty from your government? Thank you Deputy. Thank you very much, Ken Corral. I want to welcome all the students as well from Inver College who are here and hopefully they get inspired by politics and what you're seeing today and robust exchanges which are always important in the political system. And I appreciate what Deputy MacDonald has raised. And I will provide clarity for you. First of all, the legislation that you reference was a general scheme on the conclusion of the IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill 2024, which was published in July last year. And you referenced pre-legitative scrutiny which was ongoing at the Oireachtas committee between representatives of that committee and officials from the Department of Finance. and it contained standard statutory provisions modelled on other similar legislation to ensure that when operations of one State entity are transferred to another, the employment rights of staff are preserved. This was included in the general scheme in case it was required, which is specified in this, to apply to the transfer of a small number of staff from NAMA to a resolution unit in the NTMA to be established to manage any residual activity following the dissolution of NAMA. No decision has been made, as Minister Donoghue said yesterday, with regard to who these individuals might be. Discussions are ongoing with the NTMA, but it is clear that the resolution unit will be much smaller in scale than NAMA was. As such, it is not expected that the unit will require the transfer of the CEO role as it is currently constituted. Where staff who are not going to be in the resolution unit, and who are not already made redundant by NAMA prior to the dissolution date are concerned, it is a matter for the NTMA as their particular employer. The general scheme sets out clearly that this provision is not complete, that discussions, and I quote, are ongoing with the NTMA, and it may be the case that no provision is needed in this bill to facilitate staff transfers. Government has not yet published final legislation on this matter. Just to your question regarding the Housing Activation Office, this is a really important office when it comes to addressing the barriers, the constraints that exist at local level, for example. Yes, the nominated individual that you have referenced is not proceeding with that role, and as such, Minister Brown will come back to Government on who that might be and what the appropriate expertise will involve in the context of the establishment of that office. But it will be an important office to address some of the constraints and the barriers at local level. I think we should all have that cross-party approach to actually addressing the constraints that do impede supply of housing at a local level. This is a proactive response from the Minister for Housing to actually address the barriers and difficulties within some local authorities to try and synchronise and coordinate the delivery of local infrastructure. That particular Strategic Housing Office will work and coordinate with the Infrastructure Division that I have established in my own department, so that we really accelerate and step up the ability to deliver infrastructure and housing supply across our economy. The purpose of having an individual leading that is that we have someone with the appropriate level of expertise and leadership to really drive change and accelerate delivery in this particular area. The appointment of a head of office with an in-depth understanding will be critical to having the impact that the office needs to have. In the interim, staff will be deployed from within the Department of Housing to step up the particular office. It will also involve seconding particular individuals from across the commercial state sector to accelerate delivery in the provision of infrastructure. I have clarified the matter relating to the legislation. It was a general scheme. The legislation has yet to be published on that matter and it may not require that provision as the NTMA works through the relative conditions with respect to people that exist in NAMA. We are stepping up the Housing Activation Office and it will make a difference in the provision of housing supply. Minister, in the spirit of being helpful to you, can I suggest that what needs to step up is the performance of the Minister for Housing and indeed the collective performance of Government. All of that is just verbiage that you have offered up on that unit. The Minister for Housing drives housing delivery. That is their job description. That is why they are on a big salary. Your legislation is very clear that all NAMA employees and executives transferring back to the NTMA will work in the resolution unit. Therefore, all of them will hold their terms and conditions. That is what it says. Either you are going to remove that provision from the legislation. Is that the case? Please tell me if that is the case. Other than that, we can only presume that Mr McDonough will return to the NTMA and he will hold his salary of £430,000. You have been caught out here Minister and you are continuing to duck and dive today. I want clarity from you. He will return to the NTMA. What salary will he be on? Will it in fact remain at £430,000, an obscene salary in anybody's mind? I completely reject what you have said there. You asked me a question relating to the legislation and I gave you an answer which reflects the factual position in the general scheme that was presented. In the draft general scheme it states very clearly that discussions are ongoing with the NTMA and it may be the case that no provision is needed in this bill to facilitate staff transfers. The Minister for Finance, Pascal Donoghue, yesterday set out very clearly that the resolution unit would not require a CEO, that it is going to be a much smaller unit managing the remaining assets that exist within the NTMA and in that particular unit. That is why the NTMA, as their employer, for staff who are not already made redundant after the dissolution date, they will be engaging with the respective staff relating to their future contractual position within the NTMA. That is a contractual matter, as you will respect, between the employer and the respective employee. I do not think it is appropriate that you are raising a particular contractual matter for a particular employee in the context of an ongoing engagement. Labor Leader Deputy Ivana Batchi. Minister, time is up. And that particular provision may not be required as they conclude the resident panel. Like, share, and subscribe, and let us know your thoughts in the comments. We'd love to hear from you.