Senator Gerard Craughwell - speech from 28 Nov 2019

The first one I want to deal with, Minister, is the drug larium. The HPRA removed the licence for larium in 2016, yet it's still in use in the Defence Forces. Can you tell me why? Can you tell me how many cases have been lodged against the Department of Defence and the State with respect to the side effects soldiers were experiencing from the use of larium? Can you tell me if you are going to make each and every one of those soldiers or service personnel fight their case through the courts or do you intend to set up an informal redress scheme in order to deal with these issues? Are we going to look after service personnel who are suffering the side effects of larium within the Defence Force family? Can you tell me will you make specialist care available to members of the Defence Forces who have claims in on larium? And finally, because of the nature of the drug larium, will you bring in HICWA now to examine what is the debacle of larium? That is the question with respect to larium. Minister, will you accept that your recruitment policies are failing? I see no embarrassment whatsoever from you or the Department with respect to the failure in recruitment. It is an outrage to think that 140 recruits left the Defence Forces during training and didn't complete their training. There's a net overall loss of around about 200 given those who left and those who joined. Now, Minister, you produced a press release to the Irish Times yesterday and what you did was you compared apples and oranges. You gave us the 24,000, 25,000 that's paid to a clerical officer in the local authority scheme and you talked about the salary of a three-star private on 28,255 euros. How many members of the public service will find themselves on their way out the gate from duty after a day being told, sorry, there's a forest fire in Donegal, we need you and you're gone and gone for several days at a time. Soldiers are not ordinary public servants. They are available to the State 365 days of the year and 24 hours a day. So, you cannot compare apples and oranges and it's simply disingenuous to do that. With respect to the Naval Service, you talk about the tax break that was given to sailors. Is it not true that fishermen have had this tax break for many, many years? Is it not true that sailors are getting a seagoing allowance, which is less than four times that that's paid to members of the Department of the Marine? Why is there a differential in seagoing allowances when public servants on land all have the same travel and subsistence allowances paid to them? Now, finally, with respect to the Air Corps, you tell us that two pilots were returned and recommissioned. Isn't it true that two pilots that have been recommissioned are both of Lieutenant and Colonel rank? Will they be flying? Will you be paying the allowances to Commandants and Lieutenant-Colonels who are flying, particularly in the area of the Air Ambulance Service? With respect to the Air Ambulance Service in Athlone, you have given a guarantee in the Senate and you have now given a guarantee today that the Air Ambulance Service will be up and running on the 1st of March 2020. It is my understanding that to crew the Air Ambulance Service, you need 10 crews. We have two. If one or two pilots leave between now and the 1st of March, we will not be able to have an Air Ambulance Emergency Service out of Athlone. So, I would appreciate it if you could explain to me precisely how you can guarantee that there will be an Air Ambulance Service. And, Chair, because we're pressed for time, I'll finish on this one. And that is, you talk about the increased allowance of up to 200,000 that will be available to pilots who sign up for eight years. It was a lovely piece to put into the Irish Times. What you didn't put into the Irish Times was that there are three options, a three-year option, a five-year option, and an eight-year option. And you have harped on constantly about the private sector is taking away our pilots. Michael O'Leary, the leader of Ryanair, had to put in special retention to keep his pilots. Now, at the end of the day, to turn around and only use the eight-year figure, it's totally disingenuous. You talk about a stream of pilots. Nobody knows of a stream of pilots that you have wanting to come back. So, perhaps you tell us precisely the number of people that have made inquiries with respect to returning to the Air Corps. And, finally, with respect to the allowances that you're paying to the pilots in order to retain them. What of the areas such as engineering, ordnance, the bomb disposal team, cyber security, where we have two empty seats in the Department of Communications. Clearly, Minister, I would ask you today to admit you have single-handedly... Well, you didn't like it when people over here spoke, so, you know, I take the same respect that you demand. Will you accept that as Minister, and you're not the Minister for Defence, but Minister with Responsibility for Defence, we don't get the Minister for Defence in here. The Minister for Defence is Taoiseach, and the book should stop it with him, but the book stops with you. Your policies are a failure, a total failure. You have failed the Defence Forces, and the members serving in there, you have lost the respect of all ranks. Mr Crockwell asked about the larium issue. The first case that I heard in the High Court was on the 3rd of November 2017, and the matter was settled on the 3rd of November 2017, without admission or liability. The next larium case was listed for hearing on the 15th of March 2019, and the case was settled and struck out with no admission of liability. The reason for settlement was very specific in a particular case. A further case commenced on the 21st of June 2019, and the 3rd of July 2019. That case was withdrawn by the plaintiff at the time, and was struck out with no order. And there are no further larium cases listed for hearings this year. As you do know, a working group on larium was set up, and has reviewed development in the context of the Defence Forces' use of malaria chemoprophylaxis, and obtained advice from leading medical experts, both national and international. The working group's report was submitted to the Minister, and the report was produced in the context of the current potential litigation, which is legally privileged, as I hope you understand. The report made a total of 12 recommendations, which are intended to ensure that the Defence Forces' medical policies and practice continue to develop in light of best practice. Many of the recommendations focus on areas including planning, training, education, and training for information sharing, as well as the establishment of the medical advisory group. I have accepted the recommendations of the working group, and have established an implementation group, and the work is ongoing. As you do know, given that the litigation is pending, it would be totally inappropriate of me to comment further on this issue. But let me state that it is the medical advice from the military, where appropriate that larium is used. I don't decide that myself. This is decided upon the medical people within the department. You asked about the tax credit for the Fisherman's Tax Credit was introduced in 2017, is my understanding. I can be corrected on that, and if I have to be corrected, I will come back to you on it. But let me say that on the tax credit for members of the naval service who spend 80 days plus at sea, I think this is a positive step forward. It does not go in addressing all of the issues and challenges that we have, but I think it is part of addressing the challenges that we have. As you well know, we cannot touch core pay because of the Public Service Stability Agreement, but that will be reviewed in 2020. But the tax credit is something that I was asked by both PD Fora and Military Management. My department worked closely with the Rep. Association, PD Fora, and with Military Management, in putting a submission together, working with the Department of Public Expendation Reform, and I was delighted last week that the Minister for Finance did push, brought a first call to the finance bill. My question is, why do we have to wait? Yes, I don't know. Sorry. We're very short of time on week. But this is only, why do we have to wait for, this is only, but this is something that, like, you know, I understand, Deputy, that Rome wasn't built in a day, okay? This has been going for maybe for the last 12 to 18 months, okay? But I'm delighted that it has been done now, okay? And it was with Military Management and the Rep. Association that we've looked for this. This came to my attention. They only came to me in the last maybe 18 months and the 16 months on this. We have two pilots returned. There are further pilots to return. Regarding the allowances, and specifically for people within the Air Corps, this is going through a CNA, ongoing through the CNA at the moment. It would be wrong of me to comment further on that, and that's to do with the Department of Public Expendation Reform results because it's to do with core pay and allowances. I don't make that decision in and around allowances. I've been told, and I've been given the advice by both Military Management and the GOC, that the service of the Air Ambulance will be back up and running from the 1st of March of 2020. That what was required was, was, came to my attention earlier this year, that we had challenges, and we agreed that we would take it out of service of four days per month. But I've been given absolute commitment by the GOC, by Military Management, that it will, if we were able to take it out of service for four days, for November, December, January and February, that it will be back up and going. You asked me, dear, you asked me, dear, about this, please. Sorry, following the launch of the EAS service in 2012, RACO submitted a claim for the Lieutenant and Captain's work to be tasked with flying helicopter service. The public service pay agreements do not allow for the cost increase in claims. Instead of introducing the new allowance to CNA, it was agreed to pay the pilots the equivalent of security duty allowance at the SDA for this duty. In 2019, RACO submitted a claim for the allowance to be extended to Comedants and Lieutenant-Colonels, who are being tasked to perform duties. SDA is normally paid to officers at Comedant rank and above. Payments of the SDA to Comedants ceased in October 1990, arising from recommendations in the report of the Leasing Commission. A limited number of Comedants are paid SDA, where their appointment is Brigadier or equivalent duty officers. An offer was made to RACO to pay the equivalent SDA to Comedants. The matter, as I've said, is still ongoing through the CNA scheme. I've mentioned the tax credit. The loss of recruits and long-term issues. Look, we lose around 22% average who don't complete training. That has been there for, I've looked at this, and that's going back years. That hasn't just, that's not a new phenomenon in the last two or three or four years. I often say to people, if you're not, people come into the Army expecting, and when they come into a recruit class, they expect, they don't get what they expect, what their expectations is. I think anybody who goes into a job, or anybody who goes into the Guards, the Army, whatever job it is, I don't believe, right, pay might be an issue, but I don't believe it is the biggest issue, because anybody going in to start a new job, I'm sure they look at the pay scales. I'm sure they look at what am I going to get after a year, after my training is completed, after year two, after year three, or after year four. What are the possibilities of me remaining? What can I get out of it? So I don't believe pay is the biggest issue when a person leaves in training. I speak to, it's one issue I ask the OCs all the time, why do you believe? They said military life is not suitable to them. They might be able for the robustness of it, because training is robust and very robust, and some people just don't like it. So it's far better that we lose them, if it's not suitable for them, that we lose them during training, rather than training them, and then they're leaving three or four months after training, because if we lose them during training, most of the time we are able to get somebody else in to replace them. As I say, I stated in the Dáil about seven or eight months ago that I wanted a review of recruitment. It was one of the recommendations in the High Level Implementation Plan and the Independent Pay Commission. They recommended a review of recruitment. I had already stated that I was going to have one, and Mr Porrick-Love has been appointed to that, so there's a process going through, and I hope I'm not going to give you a definitive time when I expect that report. What is happening with other specialities? The PEC-PAY review was underway. It's within the High Level Implementation Plan, and the provision for identifying further incentivizing measures under the plan linked to the next PAY agreement. That's also in the High Level Implementation Plan, that we are putting now a plan in place that we have absolutely everything, that when we go to the next phase of the public service pay talks, that we're going to have a good case to make in and around the recruitment and retention, the challenges that we have in the Defence Forces. Deputy, I think you know I can't change CORE PAY. I cannot change it. That is a matter for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. And if the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, just in midlife of the public service stability agreement, changes CORE PAY, I think you'll be the first up thing. Well, why don't you get it for teachers? Why don't nurses get it? Why don't guards get it? So there is an agreement there. The public service stability agreement is there. It concludes in 2020. There will be a re-negotiation of that plan. And I very much look forward to that. And I think we have a big job of work to do in putting a very strong case together for members of the Defence Forces that we get the best outcome out of that. And whatever that outcome would, I really feel that everybody needs to put their shoulder to the wheel. I think anybody who is going to be looking at it will know, as well out there in the media, I've never hidden the challenges that we have within the Defence Forces.