Senator Gerard Craughwell- speech from 1 Feb 2023

Thank you very much indeed. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Sorry that I wasn't here for your presentation. I had another issue to be at. A couple of questions. First, on the issue of driving tests. One County Councillor in particular in County Tipperary, Jamie Moore, made contact with me regarding driving tests. He asked the question. Initially, when I thought about it, I thought that's a bit odd, and when I thought a little bit more carefully, about it, it made a little sense at least, and he wondered about driver testing taking place in local estates, where driving schools are bringing people to the same areas to practice their three-point turns, to practice their reversing around corners, etc., etc., and he saw this as a safety issue within his community, and he wondered why in modern day technology being what it is, that we haven't gone to a stage where we can't actually do driver testing in a virtual environment. Would you have anything to say on that? Thank you very much, Senator, for the question. It is a very interesting question. What I would say, first of all, is that practice of going to the testing route has been there since I took my own licence. We are aware that, in some instances, it does cause some concerns to the residents. In relation to the next level of driving testing, myself and myself and my team are always looking at new and innovative ways upon which tests can be delivered, but we are very much so hampered around what technology is available. What I can share with you is that as part of the road safety strategy, there is an additional tool that we are looking at, it is called hazard perception testing, where it would allow an individual, during the learning process, the training process of becoming a driver, to actually have some level of a simulation simulation through a screen. Delivering an actual driving test in a simulator, the reality is I am not aware of it being done anywhere in the world. I would be very happy if the Senator was aware of some country or some jurisdiction that did have it. We would be very interested in having a look into it because, again, it would help with local residents. It may have additional elements which are beneficial as part of that learning and developing process as a driver. It is a very good question, but we are not aware of that being happening anywhere in any jurisdiction at the moment. In fairness, I am not aware of it being done anywhere in the world. I would be very happy if the Senator was aware of some country or some jurisdiction that did have it. We would be very interested in having a look into it because, again, it would help with local residents. It may have additional elements which are beneficial as part of that learning and developing process as a driver. It is a very good question, but we are not aware of that being happening anywhere in any jurisdiction at the moment. In fairness, I am not aware of it myself, but the idea sounded highly innovative and it struck me that you would be able to implement scenarios that one normally would not see in a driving test and perhaps as a 21st century country, somebody might come forward with a solution that you might be prepared to look at. It is interesting that you referenced the hazards because that is very much so what the hazard perception test is. It is around putting an individual who is in training into a scenario where they are observing a road in front of them and trying to ascertain what is a hazard and what is something that is okay. So we are actually looking at that at the moment. As I mentioned, it is part of our road safety strategy. We firmly believe that this is something that we should be making available to the public and we will seek maybe at some point in the future to integrate it into the testing curriculum as part of your learner to license journey. The other one I am told, Moncrana was probably one of the worst places in the country 12 months ago. Then it improved and was doing very well and now it is beginning to slide down the scale again. Have you any idea what is going on there or what is causing that problem? Are we referencing pass and fail or waiting times? What I can say is the waiting times that we are currently experiencing nationally are 19 weeks. They are up since the last time we were here, but we have increased our number of permanent testers by 30%. We have brought an extra 30 people on board and we see a need to go further than that. But what happens is very much almost to Deputy Kerry's point earlier, we sometimes move testers around or what sometimes happens is people get sick. We are in the service at the moment. We do have people who are on statutory leave requirements, whether it is maternity, long-term illness, and fortunately that is something that can impact the service. We do try and compensate by moving people from other jurisdictions when that is feasible. But as I am sure you can understand, because of the pressure the service is under at the moment, to move resource is a really, really big challenge for us. With respect to moving resources, particularly testers, have you got a family-friendly policy whereby you try and have testers as close to their home place as possible? That is a really interesting question. As part of our placement of our 30 permanent testers, we did seek to accommodate individuals based on their ability to get there in as short as possible time. Within the permanent sanction, that is what we sought to do. I am aware of one or two where they moved maybe to a jurisdiction or they were offered a job in a jurisdiction which really wasn't suitable for them. Unfortunately, that is where the vacancy was, and that was the offering that we had. We are always very cognisant of ensuring that there is a proper work-life balance and that people are not spending too long, particularly in a driving test world, driving to and from work. And Senator, just to add to what Mr Walsh has said, your question about we do have a family-friendly policy, but everyone's circumstances are different. And there are driver testers who are very willing to move to another centre based on customer needs. I can imagine if I was a driver tester, I wouldn't want to be in Galway. I would probably be testing my own, which wouldn't suit. But is there a list that I can put my name on to request a transfer to a particular part of the country? Absolutely. We would always engage with our staff. The other question was brought to me by Councillor Ritchie Molloy down in Tipperary. He tells me that there is a long period of waiting and that the pass rate is very low. Is there a problem with Tipperary that you are aware of? The national pass rate for 2022 was at 48%. That is a little bit back from where it was in 2021, where it was at 50%. Individual pass rates on a county level, I don't have them to hand. I can certainly take it away and look into it. But what I can tell you is the integrity of the service and those who operate within it, they are held to an extraordinarily high standard. I would never expect to see one tester failing more than others because it is a very, very tight criteria that they are managed on and they are continuously assessed on by the supervisors. Senator, we can provide that information in regard to the particular test centres of interest. We can provide that information to the committee. One of the things I will say about your organisation, I had a relation who had great difficulty with the test, a reasonably good driver but every time she went for a test. I have to say the approach taken with people that are in a nervous state is fantastic and the effort you go to put people at their minds at rest, I compliment you on that. Thank you. I want to turn to the NCT now, if I may. I had a person come to me the other day, which again is a bit unusual because I don't really deal with members of the public that much. He went looking for an NCT test. His NCT runs out at the end of February, early March, I think. He was offered an NCT test in late September. Now, what we are being told is that the Gardaí will take a sympathetic view. The law is the law. You have to have a vehicle that has been tested and passed the test and that is it. If a particular Gardaí chooses to take a lenient approach or a sympathetic approach, that is very much down to him or her, as the case may be. I understand you are trying to recruit people. Where is that now? We did cover some of that before you got here. I am sorry about that. I am happy to summarise. In conclusion, to Senator Crocker's point. Thank you for the slap across the knuckles. It is not a slap across the knuckles. It is in the opening statement, but we discussed it already. No, that is fine. On that point, I am delighted to say that we have the highest level of vehicle inspectors we have ever had within the NCT S. In terms of being offered an appointment in September, I am not sure I would 100% agree with that phraseology. Certainly, when you go on to the NCT S website, I would agree that typically there are appointments being available in that timeframe. However, the website does guide the user to say if these appointments aren't suitable for you, you can add yourself to a website. Add yourself to our waiting list and the vast majority of customers get an appointment within 28 days. Our average lead time for January, which is the peak in terms of the vehicle volumes that are due, was 25.8 days. If the person that was speaking to you needs an appointment, they can call our call centre and we will add them to the list or they can add themselves to the list through the website as well. Can I say to you just on this, we live in a technology world. It should be possible that I put in the date my NCT runs out rather than having to make a phone call that would immediately see I need to be prioritised and it would tell me that I will be contacted if a vacancy arises rather than having to go through the two-tier process. In response to that, we do alert you in advance of your appointment, typically 28 days in advance that you are now due. On occasion in the past, we have issued what we call provisional bookings. Basically, we alert you and say you are due on this date. We are giving you a specific appointment in your chosen test centre in advance of that date to give you a chance to be passed. Given the pressure that we have been under over the last couple of years in managing capacity and demand, that is a luxury service that we have not been able to offer in recent times. I am optimistic that we will return to it probably in the next two to three months. Thanks. Thanks.