Cian O'Callaghan: Government callous on energy crisis

Deputy Peter Callaghan. Tánaiste, your government's hands-off approach to the energy crisis is callous and cruel. For weeks now, you've failed to intervene as prices have squirrelled. When the Social Democrats asked you to act, you refused. Instead of being support for people, you've been missing in action. Individuals, families and businesses don't have the luxury of sitting back and monitoring the situation. For them, the impact has been immediate and unavoidable. Petrol and diesel prices are soaring. Home heating oil has shot up by 80% and gas prices are rocketing. These are not abstract fluctuations on international markets. These are astronomical price increases that ordinary people are being forced to pay today, Tánaiste. And for many, they represent a tipping point. Tánaiste, people were already struggling to pay sky-high energy costs before these latest price shocks. In December, nearly 320,000 households were in arrears on their electricity bills. That's hundreds of thousands of people all over the country who are already in crisis. Elderly people sitting at home in freezing cold homes because their pensions simply don't stretch far enough. Disabled people who are making choices between eating and heating. And parents of young children going into huge debt just to keep a roof over their heads. And that was before Trump and Israel launched their illegal war on Iran, causing carnage across the whole region and causing economic chaos across the globe. Tánaiste, you've now said that the government is finalizing an appropriate intervention to deal with the struggling, the surging costs. But we must wait until the next cabinet meeting on Tuesday before that is signed off on. There's no clear indication yet of when those measures, what those measures will be, and exactly when they will be implemented. Tánaiste, where is the recognition of the huge pressure that people are all over the country facing right now? Where is the urgency? You could act today if you wanted to. You could clear the Dáil schedule and get this done. Like you did when you had to appoint government ministers, you cleared the Dáil schedule to fill up your ranks. But you won't do it today, now will you, on this? Tánaiste, the government may not have a plan to help people, but the Social Democrats do. We need a targeted 400 euro energy credit which can immediately be brought in and provide to the 800,000 households who are struggling the most. And we need to cut excise duty to reduce prices and ensure that the state is not profiting from this crisis. Tánaiste, can you tell people who are watching at home, will you adopt our proposals? And when exactly are you going to take action? Tánaiste? Thanks very much to Deputy O'Callaghan. So look, just to take each of those points, I mean firstly when this government acts next week, I believe we'll be amongst the first to actually act. There's certainly been many countries in the European Union who are still pondering what to do. I mentioned only a few moments ago, the Italians are looking at what to do for a 20-day period. There is huge volatility. I was in the UK the other day meeting the Chancellor of the Exchequer. They've announced roughly I think 53 million pounds I think from memory, which is roughly the equivalent of around 5 million euro in terms of Ireland's population of an intervention as well. So lots of countries are trying to work out what's the best thing to do here. And it isn't straightforward, I've got to be honest with you, it isn't straightforward because we can't predict with any sense of certainty how long this will go, how deep this will go, and even if it ends, even if the conflict ends, and we all want to see this conflict end and de-escalate it, what the economic hangover from that will be as well. I've certainly been very hands-on. I've been at meetings in the Eurogroup, I've been at meetings in ECOFIN, I've been at meetings with the Commission, I've been at meetings with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I've been at meetings with the Taoiseach and government colleagues in relation to this, and my own economic team in the Department of Finance as we seek to get this right. I take the point in relation to energy already being very high in Ireland, and that is one of the reasons why we've expanded the fuel allowance to a further 50,000 people. So you mentioned the number of people in energy arrears, they're real numbers, I accept that, but a real number also is now that 470,000 households, more than ever before, are now getting direct help with their fuel costs. For the first time 470,000 people, that's real as well. You say when, when is Tuesday, when the Cabinet meets, that we'll act. You're asking how quickly will the measures come in, you have to allow me to finalise the measures, but I did say in my comments in the Dáil last night, I said it again today and I'll repeat, we will attach a premium to measures that can come in quickly, and you've mentioned some measures that could potentially come in quickly. I don't want to, I mean I've heard your idea in relation to the energy credit, I know it's put forward in good faith, I don't think anybody should be dismissing anybody's ideas that are brought forward in good faith, because I don't doubt they are, we're all trying to achieve the same thing here. The only point I'd make is, I'm not sure that's the speediest or most effective way, being truthful, with the time of the year that we're coming into, and bringing in temporary energy credits, I'm not saying this to be flippant at a summer period, there wouldn't be a place for a winter period, I just think that, I'm not sure, there are other ways I think more quickly we can alleviate help. I know this idea is brought forward in good faith, and like I say we all need to approach this with humility, I certainly do too, but it would require primary legislation of the likes, I just think there may be more quicker, quicker ways of helping people and possibly achieving the same aim that you're trying to achieve as well. So we'll finalise our proposals, Laska and Córla, and when you say why not right now, well literally only a few, only a few, an hour or so ago the Minister for Transport finished his latest engagement to the Hull Ears, he's working through some of their proposals, I do think we need to make one intervention here that tries to address the areas most under pressure, I do think whatever we do should be for a short, sharp period of time in the first instance, to provide us with the flexibility as a state to further respond to an evolving situation. Deputy O'Connor, there was 320,000 households in December in arrears on their electricity bills, they need a targeted energy credit and you're saying you can't do it because we're coming into summer, is that for real? And then you're saying oh I can't predict the future, we're not asking you to predict the future, we're asking you to recognise the reality that people are living in now and that things have been getting worse day after day and you are delaying on this, do you not recognise the difficulty that individuals and households are in, the families that cannot heat their homes, that cannot get their home heating oil tank filled, that are making decisions around can I put the heating on or can I go to the supermarket to get the groceries, do you not recognise that and that every day you delay and every day you make excuses is pushing people further and further into hardship and poverty. Will measures actually be brought in on Tuesday, are you effectively ruling out an energy credit, do I take that from your comments, so there will be measures brought in on Tuesday, what will those measures be, will they help the 320,000 households that were already in electricity arrears, will they be targeted, you've often said we need to have targeted measures, so will they be targeted, those who need the most, will there be measures on the excise tax on petrol and diesel? So look I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative in relation to this or provocative at all because I do think we need to work together on this but I do have to say what we do now has an effect on what we can do in the future, you know that, I know that, we all know that, the point I'm making is of course we need to look at what we can do in the here and now, I get that, that's what we're doing, but we also need to be very conscious as we stand here in the Dáil in the month of March, where could the global economy be in the month of September, where could the global economy be in the month of July and what if you come into the house then and say now all of a sudden we're not talking about energy, we're talking about this, we're talking about that, so we do need to look at this in the round, the Irish economy approaches this moment of global challenge from a position of relative strength but we've also got to be very conscious of leaving ourselves as a country with the flexibility to adapt our response depending on where this situation is, we all hope this de-escalates very quickly for humanitarian reasons and economic reasons as well. You're asking about targeted and then you're proposing excise which obviously isn't targeted, what I would say now is I've said very clearly what we should do in the first instance should always be targeted at those most in need, I've referenced the fuel allowance as a useful vehicle that we've used in relation to that as well, but I've also made the point that at the pumps there are real challenges and in the past we've made interventions around excise that have made an assistance to people, so we're looking at what we can do in the round across a number of government departments, what we do has to be sustainable, it has to be proportionate, it has to be time-bound because we've gone down this road before thinking, pardon me, I'm trying to have with your deputy leader I'm trying to have a substantive conversation about energy, I'm acting in good faith saying I want to work with people and you're just shouting at me, that's your choice, but you're interrupting me, that's your choice, that's your choice, we will bring forward a package on Tuesday, that package will endeavour to target measures of those most in need, the package will endeavour to assist those feeling the pressure of the pumps, but the package will also have to be done in a way that provides the flexibility for this country to adapt to the unknown