Ged Nash: Demanding Answers on €646m Education Black Hole

Thanks very much Leann Comhairle. Tánaiste, it's important that opposition keeps government honest on public spending. It's important too that reliable figures are given to opposition ahead of the annual budget so we know exactly what it costs to fund education, health and other important services and that has not been the case in recent years. We need to know exactly what it costs to fund existing services, the extra money that's needed to keep the show on the road and what money is needed indeed for new measures. We in Labour believe honest politics means keeping the opposition honest too. Now last year DIPA refused to give out these demographic costs and what it would take to maintain existing levels of service in our country. We were met with triangulation and obfuscation and we ask every year how much is needed to meet the growing needs in special education and a budget 2026, Tánaiste, we were sold a pup but more importantly so are the very families and children who need that support. And weeks ago we were told of an astonishing 646 million euro black hole in the Department of Education. So Tánaiste, how did you and your colleagues get budget 2026 so badly wrong? So what's your answer? A levy, effective cuts by another name in 2027 to every department's budget even before pre-budget talks open. And getting direct answers on how this is going to work from various ministers over the last few weeks has been like pulling teeth. So what do we know? We know that the Minister for Health for example has said in replies to me that she will have to find 175 million in savings to plug the hole in education. And this is on top of the fact that the HSE is overspent to the tune of a quarter of a billion euros in the early part of this year alone. So taken in the round as we speak, the Department of Health, the HSE is now in a hook for at least 425 million euros this year and next. Now government says that pay in health will remain untouched. That will be the case with the Department of Justice as well. So Tánaiste, which services will be cut or scaled back? What planned new services will be stalled? And all of us who are health service users have a right to know. It's more money, not less, that our under-pressure health services need. And there is a limit to the efficiencies and reforms you can extract from a service that's already under very significant pressure. And the problem is Minister Chambers has put a deadline of the 17th of July on departments coming back to him with their cost-cutting proposals. Now I'm no conspiracy theorist but that's the day after the doll rises. The day after the doll rises. Zero accountability from this government over the summer on the kinds of cuts we're going to see next year. So Tánaiste, will you commit to giving us honest figures on demographic costs and the cost of maintaining existing levels of service this year and next? Will you confirm that there'll be no further asks through significant supplementary budgets being brought to the House this year for various government departments? And directly, I'll directly ask you this question and I expect a response. What kind of cuts do you feel need to take place in health to fund the costs in education? Well thanks very much to Deputy National. I believe in honest politics as well and I think everyone in this house engages in good faith on behalf of the people that they represent as you do too. First point I'd say is I reject the assertion that this is in any manner or means a cut because a cut would suggest that the budget of one department is going to be lower than it would, than it currently is. The budget of all departments are growing and I don't need to remind the Labour Party who served in government at a very difficult time what cuts are actually like when we had to make extraordinarily hard decisions to get this country out of the depths of an economic crisis. The level of public expenditure in Ireland has risen from, the voted expenditure just the year before COVID was 67.4 billion euro. Voted expenditure in this country is now due to be 147.2 billion euro by 2030 and 125.5 billion euro next year. So the budget for every department, you reference the Department of Health, will be higher in 27 than it is in 26. It's higher in 26 than it was in 25. I don't believe there is anybody in Ireland watching in on these proceedings that do not believe that savings efficiencies and reforms can be found in the public service. People do this in their own lives all of the time and I actually think that people remember at the times when you and I were in government and we were asking people to find savings with less. We're now asking people to find savings with a hell of a lot more and I actually think even if there wasn't a need for a levy, I actually think that's prudent good management of the public purse because every week whether you go to the PAC or certain committees you can find examples of where the public service can do more and do better in terms of the expenditure of the public purse. So this I want to say will not impact 2026 allocations and the Minister has been very clear about this. What government colleagues are being asked because government is a collective if you decide to do more here it doesn't fall from a magic money tree, it has to be found somewhere. That's how the world works, that's how budgeting should work, that's how our medium-term fiscal plan works. Colleagues are being asked though in the context of 2027 budgets where every government department's budget will increase to find efficiencies and reforms and I actually think it's a very important moment of truth for the public service as well. So this will not impact the 2026 allocations. As you also rightly say we've been very clear that the levy must not impact on important areas, must not impact for example Minister Collier is here on the social protection vote and people with a disability care and those weekly payments. It must not impact on Department of Health pay allocations, in other words staffing, nor the Department of Justice staffing. It must not impact on housing or disability services and a number of other carve-outs if you like as well. This is a levy that ranges from about 0.02 percent to 1.4 percent. So in the context of a budget this year of over 118 billion, the context of a budget next year of over 125 billion, people are being asked to find that level of efficiency and we should and we will of course continue to engage honestly and transparently in all of these matters. Well the commitment to engage honestly and transparently should extend to government ministers and the departments being required to come back to the Minister for Public Expense and Reform well before the 17th of July with their very clear plans as to how these levies will impact services in their respective departments. The reality is, the reality is, the dollar is rising on the 16th and I don't believe that it's a coincidence that that deadline of the 17th of July was set. We do need accountability in this house. We know that for example the medium-term expenditure framework, it was published the day after the dollar rose last December, a very significant five-year plan from the point of view of the fiscal position of this country and how we sustain our economy going forward. So this is very much on brand for this government. Make important decisions when the dollar is in recess. No accountability. Ministers will not be available to be held to account by this house for their own budgets for 2027 and their own estimates in advance of budget 2027. This is a very very significant development from the Minister for Public Expenditure and there are alternatives as well to the introduction of levies across departments. We could look at for example reforming our taxation system and ensuring we introduce tax on wealth and assets in a more significant way to pay for the increased public services we all agree we need to introduce in this country. Well you've decided not to do that. So respectfully Ministers not being held to account is baloney. We had a Budget Oversight Committee the other day in fairness you were at it, you contributed, you asked all your questions others didn't bother turning up. The meeting actually ended 40 minutes early for Minister Chambers and I were there looking for questions to take and the Chairman, no I'm just going to be clear, the Budget Oversight Committee met myself and Minister Chambers were to answer every and any question anybody wanted to ask and it ended with 40 minutes to spare that the Chairman failed then. It doesn't matter who didn't turn up, 40 minutes, people can come back in as well. There were 40 minutes of unallocated time there so just this, we're very accountable to this Oireachtas and I want people at home to know that. I'm very accountable to this Oireachtas. I also want people to know the rising of the Dáil has nothing to do with this at all because these are figures that will affect 2027 where there'll be a significant opportunity. We'll have a summer economic statement, we'll have a national economic dialogue and we'll have plenty of opportunities. I believe in good honest politics, so do you. I fully accept that and it is important we're transparent in relation to all of these things but I think it's also important in the spirit of honesty that we make the point that when budgets are growing, and people at home know this, public spending is growing really fast in this country. I mean it's growing very fast in this country relative to pretty much any other European economy. It's actually a prudent and sensible thing to say to those charged with expending that money, can you do better? Can you reform? Can you get value for money? That's what households do, that's what small businesses do, about time is what the public service does.