Richard Boyd Barrett on public vs private infrastructure funding

Yeah, and apologies that I wasn't here earlier on, but you have to try and locate in this place, it's going to be difficult. Yeah, I just wanted to try and get my head fully around what you guys are doing, basically. And, I mean, you're basically providing funding only for public developments, or is it for private developments as well? So the call that's gone out, Deputy, was directed at local authorities and the LDA to support the provision of public infrastructure? Of public infrastructure. But can that be, I mean, the reason I'm asking is because we've had a rather controversial situation at the moment with DLR Properties, which is a wholly owned corporate subsidiary of Dun Laoghaire, an interesting idea in and of itself, because it's a public body, but it's not accountable to the council. And it's selling property or putting it up for expressions of interest out in Cherrywood for 1,000 units. Now, I'm very annoyed about that, because I don't think they should be doing that, it should be going to the LDA, and therefore you might be in play. But if a private developer now comes in and takes that site, are they potentially going to benefit from infrastructure funds that you might provide, or have they asked for them? So the call that we went out with at the start of the year and that we're about to announce is in relation to public infrastructure projects. So I was saying earlier on, some of the earlier on discussions, somebody asked me about the nature and the type of projects that came back. They were largely around road infrastructure, there was other infrastructure as well. So by and large, what's come back to us? It's come back to us from local authorities and the LDA in terms of projects that are almost, certainly in terms of the road infrastructure, would be identified in development plans as being necessary to unlock zone lands for development. And it's that project that we are funding. So let's just say the road, the road we're funding through the local authority. So if a site that is currently held by a public body, or a publicly owned body, then sells it in Cherrywood, but could you be asked for money to provide infrastructure to deliver what would be a private development? I understand your perspective on it, Deputy. I think the infrastructure that we'll be looking to support under this call is public infrastructure, as opposed to infrastructure particular to a particular housing scheme, for example. However, that's not to say that the road services, the land that is owned, could be private developer, could be a public developer, that bit we're not looking at. What we're looking at is the public infrastructure project that unlocks the zoned land. Okay, yeah, I'm still trying to just understand the kind of boundary lines of public infrastructure versus the development, right? I mean, to give you another example, there's one that was, again, a debate in Dún Laoghaire County Council last night, which is a development in Blannah Avenue in Dún Laoghaire. I don't know if anything has been put to you about this, but it's going to be a new social and affordable housing development, which we very much welcome, but there's going to be no parking spaces in it, right? Apparently, this is because of viability issues, if you were to provide parking spaces. Then I wonder, well, do they ask you guys for money, or could they ask you for money to provide parking spaces? Because, I mean, to us, there's going to be problems down the road, the fact that they're developing a social and affordable housing development, which we want, glad of it, but there's going to be no parking. Which could be problematic, for example, with people with disabilities or people who need their car to get to work. So, is that the kind of thing they might go to you guys and say, well, could you provide us with the money for parking to make this development work? It certainly wouldn't have fitted with the criteria of the first call, Deputy, no. It wouldn't have fitted with the criteria. Okay. And just the other thing, then, there's no quid pro quo, just to confirm, in terms of if you give money in terms of social and affordable housing, is there? There's no quid pro quo, like what the LEA have? No, I think as the Minister was in here in February or so, no, there's no direct link. Obviously, the normal social and affordable programs will apply to the lands that are activated, but in terms of the project that we're funding under this call, it is a public infrastructure project, and we're funding the local authority to deliver that public infrastructure project. Then the normal affordable and social housing program supports will kick in, in terms of any lands activated by it. Okay. And they have to approach you rather than you going out and having a look and seeing if activation is being done on lands that they have. In other words, if there's land that's in public ownership, which should be activated, but isn't being activated, I mean, I can think of lands in our area up around, I think Kulan said at one point, they had approached an area down about doing a development up in Michael, and they were told, oh, well, there's not water infrastructure there, and so it never happened. And then you wonder, well, why wasn't there? Are they looking for money to put in the water infrastructure so they can open up those lands? Yeah. Yeah, go on. Well, do you go out and ask councils and public bodies, well, what land have you got? Have you activated it? If not, why not? And, you know. So, yeah, to your question, Debbie, I think that was fundamentally the purpose of the first call was really us, I mean, it was an extensive period of engagement with all local authorities in advance of it in terms of developing that first call. And then it was asking, and thought of that engagement and consultation in terms of what the issues were, infrastructure barriers were identified. The first call was going out to local authorities and the LDA saying, of your zoned lands, what are the infrastructure barriers that you need funding assistance with to unlock those zoned lands for development? And those are the types of projects that have come back to us in this first call. And can you say if there's any in our area, by the way? Dun Laoghaire Rathdown did apply for projects. Many? Deputy Healey Ray, don't have the number off the top of my head. All applications have been assessed, and we'd expect to make a decision very shortly. Can you give us information about the details of that? No, we're in the point of announcements will be made very, very shortly, so I'm a little bit restricted as to what I can say about specific projects, obviously. Thanks. I might pass them on to Horst when you have a decision made to local representatives in the area before you make the announcement, maybe. Yeah, I'm going to now... Actually, Chair, I could just, Karen, just use the card, but we can confirm to the committee a list of the projects that have come in, in total. If you could, yeah. How many per area? Can you do that? The actual applications. I'd say we're on the verge of the announcement being made, so I think when we make the announcement, we can publish as much as we can publish, to be honest with you. We'll look to make as much publicly available as possible to avoid future... For us to be able to see the 138 that applied. We'd have a list of all of the 138 that we can certainly make available, yeah.