Ivana Bacik: Justice Now - Redress for Dunderrow Survivors

Thank you very much. Taoiseach, over recent days we've once again been confronted with some of the darkest chapters in the history of this island. Yesterday saw the conviction of former DUP leader Geoffrey Donaldson for horrific sex offences against children. Today, survivors of systematic sexual abuse perpetrated upon them by Leo Hickey at Dundero National School have come forward to share their harrowing ordeal. Still excluded from existing state redress schemes, they're calling for an effective route to recognition for the horrific campaign of abuse they suffered as children. And last night we heard the final episode of RTE's Pirate Predator documentary, with renewed calls from survivors for an inquiry into the state's failures to apprehend the prolific and violent sex offender Eamon Cook. Last week we learned of the death of paedophile Bill Keneally, whose crimes destroyed numerous young lives, many of whose victims are still seeking justice. So I want to begin by paying tribute to every survivor of child sexual abuse. Survivors have shown extraordinary courage in coming forward. And as they tell us, many are still fighting for justice, fighting to be heard. Taoiseach, a common theme runs through these appalling cases of child abuse. Power and silence, abuse of power by monstrous predators, and silence from the institutions of both state and indeed church that should have been protecting children. The church and the state have a duty to make amends for decades of their failures towards victims. Taoiseach, we know the Commission of Investigation into Abuse in Schools is underway, and that an interdepartmental group is examining options for future redress. That report is due in May next year, and recommendations must be survivor-led. They may require significant legislative and policy reform, but there are things we can do now to deliver justice for survivors. First, in respect of Dundero survivors, and I spoke today again with a representative from the group of women. They want to see action. They heard what you said about listening to them, Taoiseach, but they want action, and they want redress. Secondly, the Tánaiste has said that religious orders must pay their fair share of redress. I agree with them. I welcome his comments. You will know that the Labour Party has a bill before this House on Thursday in my name, a bill to enable survivors of institutional child sexual abuse to pursue redress from religious orders. Religious orders have substantial assets. An analysis of finances from a sample group of congregations showed that, collectively, they had about €1.3 billion in cash and other assets, and yet they owe the state €750 million in unpaid redress in respect of those who are abused in schools and institutions that religious run. So our bill, Taoiseach, would end an indefensible practice from religious orders that purport to show moral leadership, yet are refusing to pay redress and are shifting assets to put them out of reach of survivors. All institutions, in both state and church, that facilitated or enabled abuse of children should pay redress. Taoiseach, we want to hear from you about justice and redress for Dundero survivors, and about what the Government's attitude will be to our bill on Thursday. Will you facilitate its passage? I know we've spoken before about it. You said you'd refer it to the Attorney General, and I know that your interdepartmental group is looking at mechanisms to pursue religious orders for redress. But survivors can't wait. The Commission of Investigation is not due to report for three or four years. The interdepartmental group in a year's time, and there are things we can be doing now for survivors. First of all, Deputy, again, thank you for raising this issue. Well over the last 30 years, if you look back over the last three decades, we've had numerous episodes or numerous revelations pertaining to institutions, both public and private, in respect of child sexual abuse. It's been quite horrific. Governments from about the late 1990s onwards, if you take the 1999 period onwards when we first of all initiated the inquiry into industrial schools, and I recall the anger when the state paid up close to a billion in redress, and everybody attacked the Government of the day, which I was a member of, because the accusation was we left the religious office. I never accepted fully, by the way, because I felt the state had culpability there too, in terms of inspectorial reports and so on. And the state always had culpability in respect of its involvement in the industrial schools. And the capacity to get money at the time, we didn't want to put victims at that time and survivors through years and years of courts. And then we had swimming abuse inquiry. We had a series of diocesan inquiries, which the government initiated against Cline, against Dublin. I remember Fern's inquiry, for example, and further abuses and further revelations, right up to the present day in respect of the Spiritons and in respect of schools more generally. And we're now in a situation where we have a comprehensive commission of inquiry into schools, which we didn't have before. And so the situation has evolved. There was a time prior to the 90s when the state did not habitually establish commissions of inquiry into abuse. But from the late 1990s onwards, Irish society was opened up in many respects, not completely, not comprehensively, but in many respects. And a torrent of abuse has emerged in all aspects of life, it seems to me. And if you look at the Savvy report going back along and the context in which it reported in respect of its estimations of the nature of the abuse. But that said, on religious, yes, on your legislation, it will be the government's position with a six-month timed amendment. We believe it aligns with government policy. So we're not in disagreement with the intent or purpose of what you are proposing legislatively. So we will support that. We are entering into mediation in respect of Dundera. And we'll try and progress that as quickly as we can and effectively as we can. Also, knowing as well we have a broader issue to deal with, as you have said, in respect of the interdepartmental group. Well, Taoiseach, I certainly don't need a lecture on the history, the vile history of child sexual abuse and state and church cover-up in this country. I represented survivors of abuse in the 1990s before the Residential Institution Redress Board. And I recall the flaws in that scheme. I've spoken about them before. And I also recall the 2002 agreement, the shameful Michael Woods Agreement, which capped, capped the contribution of religious orders. At a fraction of that 1.5 billion euro cost, you rightly pointed out, of course religious orders should pay more. But given opportunities multiple times since 2002, they have failed to do so. And that's why the Labour Party are proposing this constructive bill. And I welcome your indication that government will support that bill on Thursday and will look to see it brought into law as it aligns. Absolutely it should align with government policy. We've learned over the decades, since the Ryan Report, with all of the revelations and with all the bravery and courage of survivors, we have learned so much about church and state cover-ups. But the practical steps we take now are what's important. So, Taoiseach, I welcome your comments on our redress bill. I think it does offer a way forward. It gives the state leverage then to pursue religious orders for unpaid redress. But secondly, just to ask precisely what you mean by mediation for the Dundero victims. Because I think clearly there is a group here of 19 women who are absolutely right to seek redress now in respect of abuse they suffered at the hands of Leo Hickey. What do you mean by mediation? What's the timeline? And can these women secure redress before we see the very welcome further developments at a broader level with the interdepartmental group? First of all, in terms of the... Basically, the legal representatives of the survivors of Dundero have written to government and to the minister inviting government into mediation with their clients with a view to resolving their claim against the state. So, that's what I said this morning. We will respond positively to that invitation. That's the specifics of the request. And this has been in the last, I think, 10 days, a week, that this correspondence would have arrived in. So, that's the factual specific response to that. And on the broader issue in terms of the interdepartmental group, it was due to report next year is my understanding of that. We'll see if we can bring that forward. Thank you.