Conor D McGuinness: Industrial Runoff, Nature-Based Fixes

I'm going to put some questions myself as I'm going to have to hand over the chair for a short period. The rationale behind having this meeting is precisely around the interconnectedness of our freshwater systems and our coastal waters, our maritime environment, and that's why it's important that the two committees have come together to discuss this issue. I think our estuaries are where these two bodies interact and it's where sometimes we can find the culprits that are impacting the environment in both places. Not always, but it is very important. I have a question for Swan and it relates to the impact of industrial pollution. So we've heard about nitrates from agriculture. I think we all know there's cross-party agreement. Certainly it was a matter discussed at length at our committee last week, the issue of sewage and Anoische Éireann. But there is a lot to be, I suppose, discussed in terms of industrial pollution, in particular runoff. And aside from enforcement, because enforcement, I think we can all accept that enforcement needs to be better. We need a more responsive regime of investigation and enforcement. But what can be done? Is there technologies that we could look at that mitigate some of that? And looking particularly at that industrial pollution and also runoff from other human activities around our rivers and estuaries. So I might put that to Swan first and then come to the IEN. When we speak about industrial pollution, there's a whole suite of pollutants there. And they can have impacts that we, some of those impacts we don't even know yet because they're not fully studied. But there are technologies, they are being used in other member states to kind of counter that. And there's also the introduction of, I mean, using the polluter pays principle and forcing the industries to kind of pay higher tariffs for the amount of pollution they're causing. And what we could even expect of them is to almost pay for the restoration of the damage that they're causing. In regards, nature-based solutions are one of the things that could be used as a polishing at the end, like a tertiary treatment. Or even a pretreatment for industries before the discharge goes then into further treatment. And making it expensive to treat industrial discharges might incentivize them to be more innovative and use those technologies. For example, nature-based solutions. And there are enough scientific studies to show that there are technologies like constructed wetlands, for example, or even rainwater harvesting or rain gardens, I've meant to say rain gardens, that do remove pollutants, not just nutrients, but also other pollutants like hydrocarbons, heavy metals. Anything with a soil matrix is able to remove more complex things like hydrocarbons and heavy metals. So, yes, I think increasing those prices of, you know, how much industries have to pay to get their discharge treated might incentivize them and push them to use these more innovative technologies. Thank you very much. And the same question very briefly, if you don't mind, to the Irish Environmental Network. I'd like to supplement what Panita was mentioning about nature-based solutions. So nature-based solutions are one of those potential measures, you know, that are on offer. But one of the biggest barriers to implementing them is that there's a lack of research, particularly in regards to industry on how they manage things like chemical pollution. There is very little research in Ireland or, you know, in other countries too. And it's important that when we're talking about nature-based solutions, I suppose, like things like constructed wetlands, that we have the research to say what they do and what they don't do, because what we don't want is industrial facilities putting in solutions that are fantastic, you know, have great co-benefits for biodiversity, but actually don't necessarily solve the chemical pollution element. So that's just an important point to make as well. Thank you for that. That's interesting additional information. Can I ask a little bit more on the industry? I have 40 seconds and have one question for the Angling Council. Sorry, Ms. Dubbski. So I'm from County Waterford. I live in West Waterford. And the crisis that occurred on the Blackwater, that mass mortality event, was really frustrating, albeit it happened upriver in County Cork, or so we suspect. It has had impact right on the river system and on the coastal waters around it. To what extent do we need a rapid reaction approach to this? Because as you mentioned, Mr. McEnroe, the fact that IFI staff, who are very diligent and do their work excellently, don't have the resources and maybe don't have the direction and the ability to do what needs to be done to identify before evidence is crucially dissipated or moved downstream. Your thoughts on that, please. I understand IFI have a new protocol out at the moment. I haven't seen it or read it yet. I'll wait and I'll read that. From an angler's perspective, we're not on the rivers as much as we used to be. And there's a lot of issues happening on the rivers that, you know, if something happens at night, we have nobody to ring or nobody to talk to. There's a free phone number or a hotline number. But it's the day after or two days after when that's responded to. When we had the regional fishery boards, it's the day after or two days after when that's responded to. When we had the regional fishery boards, the regional fishery boards were, there was a director in the region and there was 15 or 20 people on that board from different cohorts. So, we really need to get back to where we were. The system that's in land fisheries Ireland at the moment is not fit for purpose. In our mind, it's not fit for purpose.